OK, been checking a bit on this buisness, need some tutoring...

Stage 1,2,3, Split shot, single shot, hybrids, 530's...


Is there somewhere I can go that will give me a rundown on the differences?
I think higher stages are more fuel, split and single shot refer to how the fuel is delivered (specificaly initial delivery?), hybrids are stock bodies with different guts, 530's are really big.

What will run w/ what, who needs big oil, who needs a hotter tune to run, which ones get good power and decent idle?

We have a '03 7.3 (pmr) that probably needs injectors, running a gt38, banks intercooler, FASS, TS chip, 6-gun, and a ton of other mods (stock oil). We'd like to put bigger injectors in to get a similar amount of power w/o the chip and still keep a reasonable idle and good cold weather starting/driveability. Not concerned about the PMR's, new rods, studs, gaskets and a bigger turbo are in the future.

Someone tell me where to start looking...

Thanks!

 

This would be interesting information for me as well. I've always been curious about all the differences that all the different vendors advertise.

Kbeefy if you break a rod, you'll have to buy a whole different engine, your block will most likely have a hole in it.

 

A good place to start would be swamp's. He shows comparisons between HIS injectors and shows the difference between nozzle size and max flow. This is a good place to start for info, I'm still learning on injectors myself. www.swamp-donkey.biz is the website.

 

Ok. Here it goes. I'm going to start spitting out what I know, in no particular order, so if I don't get all your questions answered, please let me know.

Unfortunately, there is no one place to go that will tell you the differences between all the injectors, particularly the difference between the stages. This is because each company will rate it's injectors differently. A Stage II from Beans is going to be different from a Stage II from DieselSite, a Stage II from Hypermax, a Stage II from Swamps, or any other Stage II. They will probably be similar, but not the same. The stage rating is what each company uses to identify the differences in steps of their own injectors. But, you are right that each step up in a stage basically does deliver more fuel, so a Stage III will give more fuel than a Stage I. The Swamps page does have some good info about what the differences are between their stages, but for the most part you'll want to call the vendors directly to discuss the differences.

The difference between split shot and single shot however is universal. Split shots are what comes in the Superduty trucks. They are just like the name says, and split the fuel delivery into two shots of fuel. One small initial shot, followed by the main shot. I think this was done for either emissions reasons or to reduce noise. Single shots are as they say, and deliver all the fuel in one single shot of fuel. The OBS trucks have single shots in them. If you've ever heard one at idle, and compared it to a SD's idle, you know the difference in sound that I'm talking about. The single shots will be a little louder, partuclarly at idle. However, once the engine starts to turn some RPM, the difference in noise becomes difficult to hear, especially if you're running a chip. Once you start getting up in injector size, I've read that splits are harder to tune than singles. Singles will require custom programming, since our trucks are programmed to run with splits.

Hybrids are again universal, but the specific rating for each hybrid might be a little different. Hybrids are stock SD bodies with different internals. The internals come from a bigger injector. It's the plunger and barrel assembly that is swapped out. The different internals change the pressure ration inside the injector. The idea here is that you can get more fuel out with less oil pressure, meaning you may not need to run big oil. Hybrids will also most likely require some custom programming to run well.

530's are big single shot injectors, also referred to as B code injectors (most common is BD code). These were originally made for a 530 ci motor that International made. The injectors will fit our trucks, and are capable of delivering massive quantities of fuel. They can be run with the stock 5 hole nozzles that come on them, but most of the time the tips are swapped out for the 7 hole nozzle that comes on our stock injectors. Often times, the nozzle holes are also enlarged, lately using the extrude hone process, to allow a little more fuel out. I've read of nozzle size anywhere from .008" to .012", and there may be some bigger ones out there. These injectors will require custom programming, and big oil to run them. But, I think these are some of the most versatile injectors out there. Using programming, they can be "turned down" to limit fuel delivery and keep power at a safe level. Jody's running some BD's in his truck with PMR's. Once you've beefed up some hard parts though, they can be "turned up" to deliver pretty much as much power as you want.

Big oil will be needed for the 530's and some of the larger stages in some cases. You'd want to talk to each company to find out for sure which ones will require big oil, and which will not.

I'm not sure what you mean by a hotter tune, but anytime you change injectors you'll want to have your programming changed as well. Tuning is the key to both making the injector delivery its power well and to ensuring you have a good idle.

Knowing that Diesel Innovations gets their injectors from Industrial Injection, I'd call up DI and go over what you want with them. David's always been able to provide me with good adivce and should be able to help you decide what's right for your particular application. I will say this though, there are a lot of guys running the DI MiniMe's who are quite pleased with them. They're making good power, and are pretty easy to live with. They can be run on stock oil, but will perform a little better with big oil. A turbo upgrade would be a good step too, but you said that's in the works, along with replacing the PMR's.

I hope this helps. If I've confused you, or you have any more questions, just ask.

 

Excellent write up. Thanks for taking the time to help everyone learn more. So according to your post, the stock 530 can be ran with the stock nozzle as long as it has updated programming from a chip(also big oil and fuel mods)? Again, thanks for the info.

 

First off, if you truely plan on running injectors without a chip you will need split shot injectors.

Secondly, if you want 100hp on injectors alone they will have to be bigger than 200cc.....probably a split shot hybrid or 530. My stage II splits (~175cc and nozzle work) run well without the chip, but not quite as strong as the stock injectors with the extreme program. Hybrids with stock programming will smoke a ton, and will take a lot of RPM before they really start to run. Big oil might not help you much without tuning.

My opinion is you should stick with what you've got until you get a proper bottom end built to handle the big injectors and the programming.

 

awesome info, that helps alot. Thanks JT! I'm kickin some rep points your way. And off to read swamps site.

 

You're welcome.

The stock 530 can be ran with the it's stock 5 hole nozzle, yes. Programming will definately be needed, Jody can handle that easily (DP Tuner in your sig - soon anyway). Big oil, and fuel mods, yes. But, I don't think a stock turbo would be able to handle them, even if turned down. A turbo mod would pretty much be necessary as well. A van turbo or BB would be as small as I would go. An H2E would be a better option with true 530 sticks.

kbeefy, you are welcome too.