Ok has anyone that has either one, the Workhorse or the Predator module seen any better fuel millage ? If so how much ?Where do they sell them for $ 380.00 ?

 

oneforspeed,
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I run no pyrometer or gauges. I have seen this module dynoed twice on 04 6.0s. Both trucks ran in the 850-1050 EGT range without the module. With the module they ran 850-1030-1035 range. I would say that the tests were probably not 100% accurate. They were not running a grade or towing. The point was more HP applied with a more complete cylinder combustion lowered EGT'S better than stock.

I believe 1300 degrees is to hot for the turbo my 2-cents. The pitch of the turbos (turbine) is designed to control the speed of the turbo to control the amount of boost desired. There is no control of the heat that passes across the blades of the turbine other than cylinder combustion. The better the cylinder combustion the lower the EGT. The worse the cylinder combustion (overfueling) the higher the EGT.

 

Okay i will wade in and throw out my $.02.

Towing heavy and frequently in stock tune without a monitoring EGT's is asking for trouble especially in the mountains IMHO.

Installing a tuner of any type on these trucks, which does increase fuel delivery BTW, and driving empty or towing without installing at the very Least an EGT gauge but preferably a full set of EGT, Boost & Trans Temp, is just asking for trouble. Weather conditions, and engine load change as these trucks are driven down the road. Looking at a piece of paper from a dyno run on someone elses truck while you drive down the road is Not ever going to give you the parameters of your truck in its current condition.This is no different than taking your friends blood pressure readings and believing yours are the same.

Not trying to pick on anyone imparticular or start a Flame war, just trying to warn those who run any type of tuner or Hp modification device without gauges is very risky IMHO.

Hope this helps

 

I guess I never really considered comparing 2 stock 2004 Ford 6.0 366 cubic inch engines on a dyno that produced relatively the same numbers that day to mine and a friend’s blood pressure reading.
<O</O

With that said, I fail to understand your post. You state; "Towing heavy and frequently in stock tune without a monitoring EGT's is asking for trouble especially in the mountains IMHO".

Ford did not factory install a pyrometer in my 04 truck to monitor EGT and I have not been told by Ford that it will be necessary that I will need one if I decide to tow heavy and frequently in the mountains STOCK. My truck came with a temp gauge for the transmission. If the VGT and the rest of the “air management” system are working correctly then I do not care to monitor boost.

As I stated I witnessed two trucks dynode with and without the Predator Module and both trucks performed relatively closely to one another. I also stated that the tests were probably not 100% accurate. Maybe you have never dynode or seen an engine dynode. I have towed somewhat through the mountains and my engine has never seen anything close to the engine demand I witnessed put on the 2 dynode engines.

I would not recommend the WorkHorse Module because I know it is not the same as the Predator. I highly recommend the Dr. P. Predator module because of the results I have had with it and the results I have seen with many other trucks.

 

This was an analogy, sorry that you did not understand that!

What is not to understand, if you tow heavy and throw in some mountains and warm ambient air temperatures, you can reach high EGT readings in the 1250 - 1300 degree range if you are running hard. "(This is also stated by Mark at DPPI, You can take a stock truck and 10,000 lbs and a good incline and make 1300 degrees pre turbo, much less not change duration and timing and just increasing fuel pressure to a point to make 80 HP and the EGT's will go up, dangerously up.)"
With the EGT gauge you can see the high EGT and ease up on the throttle and let things cool down before problems are caused.

Ford didn't install alot of things in these trucks, that doesn't make it right (BTW my truck didn't come from the factory with a 5th wheel, Gooseneck or TT hitch. Does this mean that FMC thinks i don't need it to tow safely?) They did include a water temp gauge that is of no more use than an idiot light, and the trans temp gauge isn't any better.

You state if the VGT and air management system are working correctly then you do not care to monitor boost. That is your choice, Ford did finally install a boost gauge in 05 do to problems with overboost. Furthermore when you add a tuner of any type you are changing the parameters of the motor, and that has an effect on multiple systems. The computer gets input from multiple sensors and compares them to one another to adjust the engine.

I have seen many engines dynode and run many at the track thru years of racing. And the results will vary between the dyno and the track. Your statement about dyno results not being 100% is correct. Hence the reason to run gauges to monitor things, and alleviate problems before they happen.
And just because you don't pull heavy loads through the mountains very often doesn't mean all is well. You have no data or gauges to tell you what your truck parameters were at that time. You have nothing but seat of the pants feel.

Just and FYI when you increase the fuel rail pressure like the Dr. P. or Workhorse do, you will get increased fuel deleivery to the cylinders because the Engine computer expects a lower fuel pressure rate. This will cause overfueling in some conditions which as you stated above Will cause EGT temperatures to rise. There is no free lunch here. Without gauages you are not going to know when this is happening.

I am not slambing the Dr. P Predator module, my whole point was and is, that if you are towing heavy (either stock tune or modified) or if you run a tuner of any kind you need gauges to monitor the engine parameters. Driving without accurate gauges in these conditions is like driving blind and hoping for the best.

It is your truck run it how you want. My previous post was directed as a general post to anyone one running any type of tuner and/or towing heavy.
Accurate gauges are the first mods that should be made to these trucks IMHO.

Hope this helps

 

FWIW--My Predator ran cooler egt's than the stock programming and I ran it in 100hp 99% of the time I had it in. It puked like a groom at a bachelor party too. I also know now that the programming on it really wasn't safe because of the injector timing. Just because the EGT's are cooler doesn't make it a safe program. There are lots of ways to make HP and cooler EGT's that aren't good and lots of ways that are. 1300 degrees is hot but not extreme by any means--1600 is hot. I can't remember what the melting point for these particular metals is, but it's quite a bit above those points.

 

And there are pictures around to prove this

For those intrested they do exist do a search around here for them.

 

Yes and I've seen the actual parts. Fortunately for ME I haven't suffered the carnage that Matt has--all thanks to his experience. We've pushed the envelope as far as I can and still have it to drive everyday. "Granny" is taking the weekend off to get her headache cured, but she'll be back in full force Sunday.

 

In 16 hours or less

 

npccpartsman,

Are you talking about the Diablo Predator or the Predator module? What exactly did you break, doing what and at what temps? I am curious.

I've done a search and must be a dullard. Google came up with a ton of unrelated crap. Give me a hint on a search. That stuff would be fun to see. I have only seen one diesel melt down in person. That was a 1996 Dodge the melted the rear piston. The truck was stock and the guy (my father) was pulling WAY too much. He was running down the highway and felt the truck pull down. He looked down and saw the temp gauge buried. The radiator was plugged with grass from all the off road activity during the summer. He was pulling home the equipment after the job was finished. Temps were never an issue empty but they got up there with the load he was pulling. We actually sleeved the block and replace the piston, water pump crank/rod bearings and a few other goodies. The truck is still running today. The meltdown was at 240,000 miles, auto trans let go at 265,000 miles and the truck has over 330,000 on it today. I was shocked that there was no other damage to the engine.

Has anyone ever seen a turbo melt? I know pistons usually go before the turbo does but I'm curious. I would think the high EGT's would be harder on the bearings in the turbo than the turbo housing itself. Educate me please!!

one4

 

Diablo Predator reprogrammer--the old unsafe programs with about 20 degrees injector timing--the Pukator as it's known in performance circles. I just got the headgaskets again--grrrrr. We finished them off since we already knew they were gone---the beta tester as it was.

 

one4speed,

I don't have access to the pictures currently, and the search i mentioned was to be done on FTE. Look for blown motor in 6.0and it is a good read.

It is the pistons the melt long before the turbo.

Hope this helps

 

New to the site but I don't know if I can say where I have seen the Dr. performance for $380, any input would be appreciated. Don't want to stir trouble if it is not necessary.

 

[Quote]
Just and FYI when you increase the fuel rail pressure like the Dr. P. or Workhorse do, you will get increased fuel deleivery to the cylinders because the Engine computer expects a lower fuel pressure rate. This will cause overfueling in some conditions which as you stated above Will cause EGT temperatures to rise. There is no free lunch here. Without gauages you are not going to know when this is happening.

As stated previously the Predator Module does not circumvent factory fuel delivery period. Fuel is added as you mash the accelerator just as if it were stock. You state that; “you will get increased fuel delivery to the cylinders because the Engine computer expects a lower fuel pressure rate". If that were the case I would have a DTC malfunction code every time I accelerated since the ECM recognizes that the ICP is lower or higher than the factory value the IPR is trying to achieve. The ECM acts normal (no DTC) because it has not been asked to change any parameter that it cannot factory already do.

As for as gauges are concerned to each his own, you run a high performance module in the 100HP+ range get you some gauges. I think it is funny the ones I see coming down the road being over fueled are smoking like a coal train anyway. I am confident with the 80HP Predator without gauges just like it’s advertised.

 

I don't think there is a problem telling where you saw the modual I have seen many people post such things with the web site. But if you don't want to could you please send me the link to my yahoo email. dynarider1995@yahoo.com