Now that I'm finished with preliminaries I need a place to start. The battery on my truck keeps running down. I've put a new key switch in it and a new starter solenoid. Every wire under the dash is tape free and I cannot find any two that are melted together. Fuses are not blowing. It will start fine once, then on the second start it will act like the battery is low: let it sit for 15 seconds and it will fire like a new battery. Timing is fine, in fat it's a recently rebuilt engine. I have not been able to find any wires that are (or were) smashed in the process of putting the engine back in the truck after it was rebuilt. Where do I start looking?
Gary Rubendall

 

Are you sure that your battery is actually losing its charge? You can usually haul it into an auto parts store and have it load tested to find out if it is a problem with the battery. If the battery was really losing its charge, I would not expect it to start again after waiting 15 seconds or so. I would suspect a starter problem. You can have it tested for free at most auto electric places. Or, it might just be that your starter is binding. I had one do that after one of the housing bolts worked loose.

If you're certain that it is the battery, check to see if your alternator is magnetized (assuming you replaced the generator with an alternator).


Good luck- and be sure to let us know what the problem is when you find it.
Nate

1964 F-100 Custom Cab 292 V-8 3 spd
1964 F-100 292 V-8 3 spd
1990 F-150 5.8L
http://www.geocities.com/revnate64/Revnate.html

 

Nate
How about a swap, my custom 64 for your custom 64? Just kidding, you wouldn't want this headache.
This is the second battery. It is now about 2 months old and has been in the truck about one full day (off and on) and there have been 3 different starters on it. The one in it now is a new one, rebuilt but new. All three have acted the same way. I have one ground wire going from the engine to the body. Should I also have one from the frame back to the engine in another place. There used to be one from the body to one of the bolts on the starter, but with the engine change (302) the wire was about an inch too short and I just have never replaced it. The other ground wire smoked one time while I was starting it so it came off and got a good thorough cleaning and then replaced. No more hot spot. The hot wire going from the starter solenoid down to the starter gets warm during starting. Is this normal or am I still maybe not getting a good enough ground? The battery will charge back up fully if left on 2 amps overnight but will lose it's charge in a days time if left in the truck. What made you ask about the altenator? Yes it does have an alternator on it and not a generator. And I have had it checked also. Puts out a good charge.
Sure would like to see your trucks. All I ever wanted was a decent "stock" old Ford truck. Alas
Gary

 

Sounds like the starter bearings are shot and the armature is dragging.
Skip4274
4everFord

 

Gary,
Skip has probably nailed it down for you- I would suspect it's the starter.

As far as the trucks- I'd swap with you!! bring a couple of trailers and several big boxes and we'll gather up all the pieces They are in the rebirth stage right now. You can see some pics (such as they are at the link in my signature- just don't expect to see much when you go there.

Nate

1964 F-100 Custom Cab 292 V-8 3 spd
1964 F-100 292 V-8 3 spd
1990 F-150 5.8L
http://www.geocities.com/revnate64/Revnate.html

 

I still suspect the ground strap is not doing its job. I replaced my cables with fat ones, about as thick as my little finger. The negative goes directly from the battery to the engine block. The motor cranks fast and nothing gets hot.
Eric

 

Just some random thoughts. Did you do a trans swap (manual to automatic)when you swapped to the 302? I don't know why, but the starters are different (parts numbers) between the two trans types, even though they look and bolt on the same. Make sure the parts guys gave you the right one. Does the battery crank really slow when it acts like "no charge" or is it dead until you hold the key on for several seconds and then it turns the motor? If it stays dead for a few sec, the problem might be vapor lock, not anything electrical. Check your gas cap, it may sound silly, but make sure it is correct venting for your application. Hope this may be of some help...?

 

66ranger
Tell me more. As a matter of fact, there was a transmission change from 3 speed to a metric auto. When you try the second start it will turn over but it acts like something is binding (no unusual noises though) and when you let off the starter then it will get straight and take off like a whiz on the third try.
Actually, I noticed the battery going dead before I had the transmission changed. A brand new battery went dead over night but I was hoping it would hold out until the tranny got changed. It didn't, but I never had the starting problem like I do now.
Come to think of it, the ground wire getting hot and smoking would be indicative of something binding, wouldn't it. Something is trying to turn but just won't. What is the difference in the two starters and do I just need to specify a 302 with an automatic? This is a pretty screwed up collection of parts I am finding out. Didn't know much about the 302's until this all started but I've sure learned a lot. My block is a 1980 model with a 1985 crank and I've learned that they really don't match so I will probably have a monumental oil leak at the front and rear mains and the transmission I think is of 1990 vintage.
I don't suppose I have mains getting tight already because of the mismatch. What do you think?
Gary R.

 

Gary, Sounds like a spacer problem, uh did you remove the flywheel and install a flexplate in it's place.

Voltage regulater is the most common item for discharging a battery over night.

John

jowilker
[link:www.ford-trucks.net/users/jowilker|Club FTE since 01 01] My FTE Page

[link:www.ford-trucks.net/users/jowilker/NCFTE.html|NC Truck Owners] NC Ford Truck owners group

66F100s Rule
In the cool still quiet of night you can hear chevies rusting away.

 

Lets see if I can help, with a few hints..Get a "test light" and check for a draw on the battery. Turn off all lights, even hood light if you have added one, close the doors, and make sure the key is off. Loosen the bolt on the Neg. battery cable. Clamp the test light lead to the neg. cable, and touch the probe end to the post of the battery, while lifting the cable off. If the test light blub glows dim, or burns bright, you have a "draw" on the battery.
I have seen the cables that have the crimp style ends, lose connection inside the ends, Try jumping around the cables with a good set of jumper cables..Check for rust, or loose bolts at the cables also...
The differents, between the two starters are the end bells..the one that bolts to the bellhousing..the standard one is about 1 1/2 inches fron the bolt face to the bushing end..the one for the automatic trans. is about 2 1/4 inches long..
On the motor mix up...if you are using 1980 flywheel, and crankshaft damper on the 1985 crankshaft, I think you are going the have a vibration..

 

jowilker, packrat and all

Thanks guys. I have printed the replies and today is Saturday so when I get back from work I will see what can be done. Naturally it is going to rain today.
jowilker- yes I did have a flexplate put on. I had a bad vibration (packrat) and I was told by at least two guys that the auto. trans. would take care of that. Seemed like it was masking a balance problem but I have no tools for changing engines and maybe still don't have a lot of knowledge about engines (especially 302s) so I am relying on "advice" from people that have tools and space to do those things. This has certainly been an experience and I have to get in the right frame of mind to work on this truck. I thought I would enjoy it when I bought it but it seems to be a drain on money and patience.
jowilker-I had the alternator checked first thing and it was making juice like it was suppose to. Could it still have a short in it that would cause the battery to drain?
I've had at least three replies about the starter. I don't think anything is physically wrong with it (bearing or armature) but if it is not lining up or fitting right (as in wrong starter) I suspect that could be a real problem so I will be at the auto parts store today to do some checking there also.
Thanks a lot guys for the suggestions. I spend at least a portion of each day helping people troubleshoot dryers for the screenprinting industry (over the phone) so I know how hard this can be sometimes to diagnose from the keyboard. I will let you know something when I know something.
Gary R.

 

It could be vapor lock. My dad's 64 sometimes does it too when its hot outside. The next time it happens if you take off the gas cap it should start fine, then once its started just put it back on. This may sound stupid but if it is vapor lock, you can put a wooden clothes pin on the fuel line, about 1 inch away from the carb. I dont know the technical reason why this cures it but i know a lot of people who had a bad vapor lock(it would stall when driving it it), but have put the wooden clothes pin on the fuel line and it would run perfect without any more problems. I'm not sure if this is the exact problem, but its worth a try.

Travis
1964 f100 SWB stepside
1965 f100 LWB styleside

http://www.geocities.com/oldford65

check out the Slick 60's ford truck club for 1961-1966 ford trucks......

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/fordpickups61to66fseries

 

 

I've found the problem or at least one problem,,, I think. The automatic transmission is pumping oil but it's not flowing thru like it should (torque converter?) so it will start once pretty easily. When it pumps up it will make the engine shut off because nothing in the trans. is turning. When I try to start it a second time the pressure is up in the trans. so it acts like the battery is going down. If you let it set for a minute the oil pressure goes down in the trans. and then it will start okay and run for a few seconds until the pressure gets built back up and then the motor will shut down again. Does that make sense?
AAnd if it does make sense is there any way to fix the trans. or do I start from square one and look for another transmission? I have $0.00 in this one but don't know anything at all about fixing a problem like this. Is it as simple as changing oil and filter in it or is it a tear down and clean?
I didn't get a draw on the battery when I put the test light on the negative as I took it off but with everything else going wrong I'm not convinced I have that problem solved yet. How about it transmission guys. Is this fixable or replaceable?
Gary R.

 

What you have is the Direct Clutch pack burnt up..when this happens the fiber and steel plates in the pack warp up and weld thenself togather. This pack is hooked to the out put shaft, and when welded togather, to the converter by the direct shaft. You will have to do a full tear down on this one....Have seen this happen several times....