There seems to be a belief that removing your sway bars will improve your off road performance. I've seen this point brought up in many threds. I would like to dispute this myth.

I think this myth got started because somebody saw some extreme rock crawler in a magazine with sway bars removed and thought; “if it works for them”. The proponents claim that it limits articulation. While this is true, it almost never negatively effects off-roading and very often has a positive effect. If you think about it, during high and low speed driving it improves handling. (That’s why they put it on) <O</O

During Extremely slow speed, it could allow a tire to lift off the ground. While this is true, if that happens, the contact pressure will increase on the other three giving them more traction. If you have lockers, you will probably drive right out. You might ask what if I don’t have lockers. I can tell you, nine times out of ten, If you’re stuck with a wheel off the ground, you’re probably stuck anyways.

I have owned a four wheel drive since I was 18. (Two Scouts and two Broncos) I am 47 now. I’ve been stuck lots of times, but the only time I got stuck with a wheel off the ground, my truck was nearly lying on its side. If the wheel would have been on the ground, I still wouldn’t have been able to drive off.

Is it possible to get stuck because of a sway bar? I'm sure it is. My answer to that is; if you are sitting in a dynamite shack smoking a cigarette; don’t worry about dying of cancer. (You’ve got other things to worry about)

If you are taking off your sway bars to improve off road performance, your rig should have 400 horses, Dana 60's with spools and 44" tires first. Even than, it’s debatable.<O</O

There are some benefits to sway bars off road. In severe off camber situations they may prevent your rig from rolling down a hill sideways.

Statistically, 99 percent of our driving is on road and removing the sway bars is defiantly bad for on road performance. Especially in a tall truck. Any body that doesn’t agree with that statement has got their head in the sand. I don’t know of a modern car or truck that doesn’t have them. (Except for active suspension).

In closing, I know this post will provoke some arguments. I hope to get some intelligent debate that we can all learn from. Sorry for being so long winded.

 

I agree. Changing out all the bushings on the front and rear sway bars on my 93 with poly bushings yielded a much improved ride quality on and off road. It really helped out with the side to side swaying.

 

Seeing how 99% of all my Bronco driving is in or around NYC I dont worry too much about articulation, but I can tell you this the first time you hit the exit ramp from exit 16E of the NJ Tpk. with the front and rear sways removed you will crap yourself. I like the way it rides much better with the sway bars left in place.....and I have a brand new set of polyurethane bushings sitting on my parts shelf just waiting for me to put them on.....only down side is that their blue....I should have gotten red

 

First off, you argue about removing swaybars and the resulting benefit off road. Then later on you go off about on road performance.
And removing swaybars definetely improves articulation, which improves off road performance or tire grip. It has nothing to do with having a big block, 1 ton axles or 44" tires.

 

Wow, I think you should never post here again.

 

Well all of you have a good point, which is why Jeep & Dodge both offer electronic disconnect for their hard core 4-wheelers (Rubicon & Powerwagon). The fact is that plain removing them isn't a real good choice unless your rig is trail dedicated. Bronco's have never been known for their handling even with everything connected, dual shocks and a large steering stabilizer. As was said, a rear locker can get you most anywhere you ever want to get to. I think I'll go poke some hornet's now, it's getting a little slow around here....

 

TTB Broncos never had a factory steering stabilizer...those are the cheap/cheat way around fixing the front end.

At any rate, IF we can all just simmer down a bit and converse like rational human beings I'll leave this thread running. Its a good topic and all viewpoints are open for discussion. Note the word "discussion". Thank you all for your cooperation.

Being a proponent of removing (or at the very least releasing) the links and securing the loose bar while 4-wheeling, I think there is equal misconception as to what exactly a sway bar accomplishes. Designed basically as a large torsion bar, it does its best during hard maneuvering at normal driving speeds to keep the BODY and FRAME from rocking over in response to the centrifugal force applied when taking such things as cloverleaves and hard turns. Since it is attached to the frame AND the axle it inhibits the amount of flex between the sprung and unsprung parts of the vehicle. So when you round that cloverleaf, the vehicle doesn't feel like its gonna roll off the outside of the turn. As the frame naturally wants to pitch in the opposite direction of the turn, the force applied to the sway bar twists it just a bit to absorb the centrifugal energy and redirect it into downforce on the axle. Always helpful to keep the wheels pinned against the ground especially during hard cornering maneuvers don't you think? And for what its designed to do, the typical sway bar does an outstanding job.

Now, subtract the pavement and the nice level surface, slow down to a crawl, leave one wheel high atop a wet rock (from last nights rain) and the other on the same axle down in a large rut (from last nights rain). Here you sit, 4WD, locked axles, maybe even a twin-stick Atlas T-case and a rig with an articulation capacity of say 12-14" from fully compressed to fully extended. Now, put that sway bar in there. Its fairly rigid, attached to the frame and it sure as heck isn't gonna comform to the terrain (lets hope not anyway). So much for the sprung portion of the vehicle being of any help. How about the unsprung stuff? Well it'd be great but that sway bar is so mashed up tight because the one wheel is on the rock that it won't let the opposite wheel drop down into that hole. COOL, I can't get stuck in the hole that way, right? Well, no, what you can't do is push over the slippery rock because one wheel has just been rendered useless by a sway bar that refuses to let the vehicle get too far off-camber. See the misconception here is that off-camber should not exist. In race cars and most vehicles that spend their lives tooling around on the pvement, yeah, thats a good thing. However, when picking your way through locations that most PEOPLE would have to CLIMB through, the vehicle has to be able to do what we all do when we climb. Move each limb as independantly as possible to maintain balance. You try climbing sometime and tie a rod between both feet and your belt buckle. Sway bars are great for off camber...off camber that is brought on by speed on smooth surfaces. Don't know about anyone else but I've never seen a turtle with sway bars.

 

You dont have to have centrifugal force for the sway bar. If you turn sideways on a hill at 1 mph, there is an angle (differnt for each rig) that the rig will roll on its side. If you have sway bars, that angle will be steeper. This seems to be a very good off road benifit.

 

i have no sway bars under my 79, dont even kno where they are to put them back on, if i wanted too. and i dont. sway bars, in their own way stablize the body to the chassis's movement creating stability. i think everyone here knows this and the stronger the bar and harder the bushings the stiffer (stable) the ride is going into a bend. right? right. now off road the terrian will tell you if you need a sway bar, flyn through the woods keepn up with your friends on quads you'd do better with a bar, hillclimbn coverd with ruts and uneven surfaces you'd do better without a bar, personally i can feel the suspension dropn and liftin (flexing) and not affecting the ride inside the cab at all because there is no sway bar pulln the body down into the rut with the chassis. as for cruzn the asphalt, just gotta take you time, dont be an idiot. my bronc is lifted 8" with 39" boggers (not getn into detail but u get the pic) you dont see ***** like this whipn around bends on the street. i think everybody here is smart enough to know that if your sway bar is off,... you cant drive it like it is still on. whew

 

Huckster, when you say;

"personally i can feel the suspension dropn and liftin (flexing) and not affecting the ride inside the cab at all because there is no sway bar pulln the body down into the rut with the chassis."

I agree, but the ride off road was not really my concern, It's getting where I want to go.

When you say;
"hillclimbn coverd with ruts and uneven surfaces you'd do better without a bar"

I have to say, what do you mean better. I have done lots of hill climbing when I lived in Pennsylvania over ruts and uneven surfaces. A swaybar limits articulation, not stops it. I ran with guys that had removed thier bars and there was never a hill that they could climb that I couldnt. But I had one instance where I was able to turn around on a hill. When my friend turned his Blazer at the same place, he flipped. I'm not saying that the lack of bars was the reason (It was jacked to high) but it didnt help.

That brings me to another point, jacking trucks up higher than nesessary to clear the tires. My truck has 38's and I can go flying around corners on the street. The 14" wide wheels really help in this case. ( My truck is wider than a Hummer, I've measured) My truck will slide (not flip) if I take a turn to fast.

I'm not saying that there is no benifit to articulation. The extreem rock crawling out west is an example. But, if you watch "Top Truck Chalange" you will see a wheel off the ground and they keep going. I fail to see the differnce between your wheel being 6" and 12" off the ground.

 

ive seen your trk, its a nice ride, i like it. dont post anything to argue with ya, i think the word yer lookn for is center of gravity your trk sits low, big meats tucked inside wheel well looks cool... trk sitn low, big shoes, ofcoarse your trk can handle tighter turns better than lets say... my trk. (even if mine had the bars on) because yer c.o.g. is lower, mine is higher. like turning on a hill, yours is goin to hug it, the blazer didn't cause it sat higher...by the way that is why they made blazers...to keep dummies like that outta broncos! hehe, as far as liftn the truck to clear tires, i gotta agree with you, dont kno why some people spend money on liftn truck with having minimal travel with their suspension, my case works perfectly i use everybit of the space in my wheelwell, with the travel. i have new pics to post soon, you'll see, you'll like the ones @ peterbuilt mountain

 

Well for the record, I didn't say the stabilzer was factory; I said "with everything connected AND a steering stabilizer. I bought my Bronco new in 1997 and added a stabilzer within 2 weeks. It isn't as a "cheap/cheat way of fixing anything", but rather a way to improve the loose feeling of the Ford Y steering and on=center steering wander. I also have run them my Jeeps, and my '84 4runner as they also reduce kickback when you hit large rocks.

 

Huckster,
I just scoped out your gallery. To bad I didnt know you when I lived in PA. It always seemed like I was the one to go to when they got stuck. But when I got stuck, nothin would get to me. Some day I'm going to have two trucks. But I got to spend the money on the house now (wife).

 

I guess it all just depends on the type of driving you do. On road driving sway bars are better than none when they are properly maintained. By that I mean that all the bushings are tight, because if the bar is moving around because the old rubber bushings are toast then its not going to do anything. Offroad I have never had the sway bars let me down. The only place I see them being a problem is on big rocks, and Big Broncos are not rock crawlers any way. Personally I just like to hit up the really muddy backroads back home in Texas, where you have tractor ruts and deep ditches on the sides of the road. I found myself in some pretty crazy spots and the sway bars never held a wheel off of the ground. With a staight axle up front maybe, but thats one benifit of TTB like it or not........it will flex pretty good.....even with sway bars. Out here in California I have gotten bored of the lack of mud and gone down some decent trails and the truck still seemed to flex all the way to its limit. So basically unless you plan on going down trails with a lot of BIG rocks I would keep the bars.

 

Perhaps "centrifugal force" was an incorrect choice of words. Momentum dictates that when the vehicle is moving one direction and a turn is initiated, yes a certain amount of energy must be absorbed to get the vehicle to change its direction. Thats momentum rather than centrifugal force.

If you end up on a hillside when you are offroad and your sway bar is in place the sway bar will actually draw the wheel that is further down the hill up off the ground thereby increasing the likelihood of a rollover. The bar won't let the springs and the weight of the unsprung parts of the vehicle drop down to compensate for the uneven terrain. The bar is designed the keep the frame from rolling off the top of the axle. But the effect it has on very uneven terrain is to keep the axles from sagging under the vehicle to keep the tires in contact with the terrain. The sway bar doesn't know the difference between body roll and normal suspension articulation. It just tries to keep the frame where it is on top of the axles at any time. This is why sway bars off road become a detriment. They actualy limit the suspension's ability to conform to the terrain which actually serves to put the entire vehicle FURTHER off camber in many situations than it would if the suspension were allowed to drop the wheel(s) down into ruts and holes or the low side of a hillside. The problem with this scenario is that most people don't think about the fact that you don't cross hills sideways while fourwheeling ayway. Its dangerous with or without sway bars. The reason for the sway bar going away is because its rare that you end up with the entire vehicle sitting on a single plane (which you DO have most of the time ON road). Off road, you are typically sitting there with each wheel at a different level...right rear is up while left rear is down but in front the opposite is true. Now with sway bars that will leave the vehicle teetering on the two opposite corner wheels because the sway bar is designed to keep the body atop the axles no matter which way the axles "lean". And yes I said "the axles lean". Because in this situation, the frame of the vehicle is probably sitting pretty close to level but two wheels can't reach the ground because the sway bars don't let the high wheels drop down to meet the terrain. Why? Because that (under normal pavement driving) would put the axle too far off camber and constitute too much body roll (on pavement). So the sway bar is still doing what its designed to do but in these situations that are so commonplace off road, they hinder the vehicle's ability to keep the wheels in contact with the terrain.