building first 302
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building first 302
i was wandering what kind of combo woudld give me at least 300hp with stock heads, it's a 1978 302, ive built a couple of small block chevy's but this is my first ford. i was needing help with cam and torque converter selection. also it's a 2wd im looking to make a nice street machine and something to keep up with camaros and all the hondas that chase me in town.
here is what i already have:
302 block stock bore
new crank kit
stock rods
hyper flat-top pistons with 4 releifs
edelbrock rpm intake
15/8 full length headers
3.50 gears
c6trans
edelbrock 600
here are some combos i was thinking of:
compcams 280 magnum 230@50 512/512lift 110lsa
jegs 11in 2400-2600 rpm stall
or edelbrock rpm cam to match intake
with same stall
thanks for any suggestion.
here is what i already have:
302 block stock bore
new crank kit
stock rods
hyper flat-top pistons with 4 releifs
edelbrock rpm intake
15/8 full length headers
3.50 gears
c6trans
edelbrock 600
here are some combos i was thinking of:
compcams 280 magnum 230@50 512/512lift 110lsa
jegs 11in 2400-2600 rpm stall
or edelbrock rpm cam to match intake
with same stall
thanks for any suggestion.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,170
Likes: 5
From: The hills of No. Calif.
If your heads are the original '78 heads, that may be your biggest hurdle. The late '70s were the worst in terms of low compression/big combustion chambers.
You can use some stock heads, either earlier or later and get a lot of improvement. I like the '69/'70 351W heads (C9OE or D0OE) which have smaller chambers (60.4cc as opposed to 69cc) and bigger valves (1.84/1.54) than your '78 heads, (1.78/1.45) and can be reworked for even larger valves (1.94/1.60 is a good combo) along with a mild port job. These heads can still be found, often with the work I mentioned already done.
Alternatively, look for the more plentiful (these days anyway) E7, GT-40 or GT-40P heads.
1 hp per CID isn't that hard to achieve and I'd say that the mods you're planning, along with some decent heads properly set up and a good ignition should put you there. You might want to think about spending a little extra to have it balanced too. Makes a lot of difference in terms of smoothness and longevity.
I'm wondering why you're going with std. bore? A '78 block should have some miles on it and I'd think you'd have some taper and/or out-of round. Has it been mic'd?
You can use some stock heads, either earlier or later and get a lot of improvement. I like the '69/'70 351W heads (C9OE or D0OE) which have smaller chambers (60.4cc as opposed to 69cc) and bigger valves (1.84/1.54) than your '78 heads, (1.78/1.45) and can be reworked for even larger valves (1.94/1.60 is a good combo) along with a mild port job. These heads can still be found, often with the work I mentioned already done.
Alternatively, look for the more plentiful (these days anyway) E7, GT-40 or GT-40P heads.
1 hp per CID isn't that hard to achieve and I'd say that the mods you're planning, along with some decent heads properly set up and a good ignition should put you there. You might want to think about spending a little extra to have it balanced too. Makes a lot of difference in terms of smoothness and longevity.
I'm wondering why you're going with std. bore? A '78 block should have some miles on it and I'd think you'd have some taper and/or out-of round. Has it been mic'd?
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 819
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From: Troy,NY
Looks like a good setup with Tigerdan's reccomendations. I would change a couple of things.
Weiand Stealth manifold. Longer rpm range and built in rear coolant crossover.
Call edge converters for you TC. They will custom make you one for the same price. http://www.edgeracingconverters.com/
Weiand Stealth manifold. Longer rpm range and built in rear coolant crossover.
Call edge converters for you TC. They will custom make you one for the same price. http://www.edgeracingconverters.com/
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i was wandering if it would be a good idea to bore it, what is the avg price for boring .30 over. ive got a set of 289 heads off a 66 mustang coupe, would they help me any if i used them also would 302 headers and intake bolt up to them.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2004
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289's and 302's are the same except for the stroke and the length of the rods. So intakes, heads, headers, ect.. are all interchangable. 66 289 heads are usually 54cc chambers. That will give you a big boost in compression and they generally flow a little better than more modern heads. However, they won't have hardened valve seats needed with no-lead gas, unless they have been added.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,170
Likes: 5
From: The hills of No. Calif.
I have a set of '66 heads that have been nicely worked over. Professionally ported, oversize valves (as I mentioned above) with hardened seat inserts, screw-in studs with no need for guideplates as they have the small oval (sort of) pushrod holes. They flow quite well and helped my race car make a bunch of power. Yeah, the '66 heads would be a good choice with a little work.
It's been a while since I've had a block bored out, but my old machine shop used to charge 10 bucks a cylinder. (That included honing.) I would expect to pay anywhere from 10-20 bucks a hole for a competent shop using a deck plate to to do the job. Have the shop of your choice mic the cylinders to see if it does indeed need it (if it isn't obvious) and most likely thy'll want to have the new pistons in hand ahead of time in order to fit the bore to them precisely, as well as to determine the honing finish. (Different types of pistons require a different honing finish.)
It's been a while since I've had a block bored out, but my old machine shop used to charge 10 bucks a cylinder. (That included honing.) I would expect to pay anywhere from 10-20 bucks a hole for a competent shop using a deck plate to to do the job. Have the shop of your choice mic the cylinders to see if it does indeed need it (if it isn't obvious) and most likely thy'll want to have the new pistons in hand ahead of time in order to fit the bore to them precisely, as well as to determine the honing finish. (Different types of pistons require a different honing finish.)
Last edited by TigerDan; Sep 4, 2006 at 11:28 AM.
Elder User
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wow different pistons require different honeing? i always thought it was based on the type of rings actualy. learned something new 
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Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,170
Likes: 5
From: The hills of No. Calif.
You're right, my bad, Too many long days and late hours the last few days, the coffee hadn't quite kicked in yet when I wrote that. 
(I hate moving... 
)
What I meant to say was that different pistons require different piston-to-cylinder wall clearences so the amount of honing required may vary. (More clearance is needed for certain types of forged pistons.) And yes, they'll want to know what type of rings you're going to be running to determine the finish. (Cast vs. moly, etc.)
See, I'm not afraid to admit it when I screw up. I could have just edited my original post so I didn't come off looking like an idiot...
(I hate moving... )What I meant to say was that different pistons require different piston-to-cylinder wall clearences so the amount of honing required may vary. (More clearance is needed for certain types of forged pistons.) And yes, they'll want to know what type of rings you're going to be running to determine the finish. (Cast vs. moly, etc.)
See, I'm not afraid to admit it when I screw up. I could have just edited my original post so I didn't come off looking like an idiot...
Last edited by TigerDan; Sep 4, 2006 at 11:30 AM.
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i was looking at the 289 and it is the matching number motor for my sisters 66 mustang so i want to leave it alone. ive also gota set of heads off a 1986 f-150 4x4 302 are they any better than the 78 heads?
Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,170
Likes: 5
From: The hills of No. Calif.
Somewhat better...but you should know that they made a halfway decent head in '85, changed it for the worse in '86 and went back to the same combustion chamber design that was used on the '85 head but with some other improvements. These are the E7s that you're always hearing about, and they were used for several years afterwards. You probably have the E6s.
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