A friend that is an ex car salesman told me that the invoice the dealer provides isnt always the true price they paid for the vehicle...it is sometimes used as a sales technique.

JB

 

jb_dallas -- That is not a sales technique, that would be breaking the law. At least here in NM. WOW! If they are doing that in TX...I wish you and all the other folks luck.

But that is why we have the internet...and kbb.com (amoung other sites) for LAW breakers like that! Heck even www.fordvehicles.com when building your vehicle will give an invoice.

Good luck...

biz

_____________________________
2003 F250 SD SC 142" XLT FX4 V10 Auto 4x4 3.73s

 

Most Ford Dealers here in WA list their inventory online. I last looked 2 years ago when buying my wife's Escape. I found many also would post the Mullrooney Sticker (MSRP window sticker) too. I then applied the list of options to the Edmunds.com website to find true invoice. I subtracted all rebates and incentives, added $200 for profit and then went to the dealer to make the deal. I have never paid more than $200 over invoice (after rebates & incentives) on any new car including a 2005 Jetta for my daughter. All the dealer has to believe is that if he doesn't make the deal, some other dealer will. You need to get the dealer invested in you (show interest, take a test drive) and then work for the number you arrived at. A few dealers are smart, figure out that you know what you are doing, and cut their expenses by selling to you quickly and get onto the next guy to make money. Some of these also have an Internet guy or Fleet manager but beware, many do not catch on that you know what you are doing and try to pull games on you. I have seen phony invoices and inflated invoices as well as second stickers. Many others are stupid and waste your time and theirs to get to where they will wind up. After I have "hooked" a salesperson and we begin the dance, I try to let them know that I know what I am doing and I'm looking for a fast deal. If they don't come around in a half hour, I let them know I am walking out and going to the next Ford dealer. This will only work if you do your homework, know who has what truck and what the invoice and rebate/incentives are. And finally don't fall so in love with a vehicle that you can't walk out on it. I always make sure they have my cell phone number early in the negotiations. Several times, I will get a call before I get 5 miles away accepting my deal. Yeah, it's a pain, yeah it's a stupid way to buy a truck but if you save a couple thousand, you can buy more goodies for your truck. But for gawd's sake not from the dealer!!!

 

Thanks for the replies

I test drove the truck yesterday. The sticker has a $31K MSRP and the finance manager shows me an invoice for $28.5K. They are offering me the truck for $21.8K..that is significantly below "invoice" (if it is the real invoice); however, they are trying to screw me on my trade to make up for the difference. I brought my financial calculator and checked every number they presented. I was surprised they let me walk out..they will probably call. Many buyers forget...we hold the cards. I could drive my old F150 another 2 years if I wanted to.

JB

 

I think thats the best way to do it. Go back at least 3 times before you make a deal. Do you owe anything on your truck?

 

I havent had a payment in 14 months. I am actually considering keeping my truck.

 

Can't tell you how many times I have walked out the door of a dealer, last time I bought 4 Rangers and 1 van for work, the haggling was said and done in about 10 minutes. I had bought my previous trucks, personal ones from the dealer, and I went in to the Fleet Sales lady, wrote it all down w/a sharpie on a piece of copy paper, and said I will be buying these today. Please don't waste our time, this is the only offer I have, let me know if I need to drive down the road tothe next dealer. 5 Vehicles, financing, trades, tags, taxes, title, done in 1 1/2hr! Lots of signing and initialing but done quickly, I REFUSE to spend more than 30 min buying a vehicle, know what you want, and what you will pay for it, if they won't, WALK. If they know that, it saves a whole LOT of time!

 

Hmmm..... something ain't adding up here. A F150 Crew with a MSRP of $31000 will invoice right around $28,100. There's a $3500 rebate or 0%, not "and." $21,000 puts the dealer at a net $2750 loss (that's after holdback, etc)..... that ain't happening, and it sure the heck ain't happening with 0% financing.

This is one of those deals where I'd be looking over the numbers on the contract with a fine tooth comb- the dealer is going to recoup that loss somewhere- guaranteed.

 

I think they are planning on screwing me with a high APR once (if) I walk in the finance room. They are offering an additional $1500 off for 4.6s here in TX and Oklahoma, so the discounts total about $5K.

 

aaah..... there's also $2006 FMCC bonus cash. Now it makes sense- but you wave all that goodbye when you take the 0% 72 mo option.

 

Keep in mind where the market is for large trucks. I am sure dealers will be glad to take a loss on a big gasser to keep from paying interest on a loan to keep it on there lot. With the model year ahnge and all now is a great time to make a deal. PLus there are kick backs from the manufacture on certain vehicles and if a dealer reaches certain sales goals. Just remember the salesman is still a person too and needs to make a living. I would love to come to your place of business and treat you like you treat some of the salesmen you talk about on here...

 

Someday I'm going to convince someone to make this a sticky, but here's the reason why a dealership won't take a loss on a new vehicle. When the vehicle is sold, it's paid off and the dealer gets to keep the profit.... or cough up the loss. As long as the dealer does nothing, it's ford's money on the line- not theirs. Department Heads (the manager guys that OK the deal) are paid on a % profit of their department. Their paycheck doesn't get dinged for a unit collecting cobwebs- but it sure does if they deliver it as a loss.

Soooo..... the dealer has nothing to lose other than some interest (and it isn't that much) by letting the unit sit until the opportunity comes along to sell it for a better deal.

re: kickbacks 'n such. True, sometimes there is (currently not the case, as far as I am aware).... but guess who gets to keep the money? If you guessed the dealer, you get a gold star. "Dealer cash" is exactly that- it isn't accounted against cost of sales in most stores, so it really doesn't impact the profit/loss picture unless you own the place.

you lost me on the last sentence though...

 

RGONOT,

I think the market for large trucks is currently pretty strong !! One dealership in town sold 125 trucks over the weekend, which is my loss, because I was too slow getting down there, and now there's nothing on the lot that's close to what I was after!! Oh well, you snooze ........there's always the 07's that will need to move before the 08's, or maybe the 08's will be slow movers, new model and all that.

BTW - Thanks for all the information on this topic, informed is definately empowered.

 

I treat all salespeople with the same respect they afford me. If they treat me with respect and realize that I do know what I am doing with regard to pricing, then we complete the deal in 30 minutes and they go home with a comission and I go home with a new vehicle. If they are idiots and try to screw me out of every last dime, they get the same consideration. Wake up, it's your money they are playing with. I have plenty of friends. When I go to buy a new truck I expect (but rarely find) a sales professional. This includes salespeople and sales managers. If you want to make friends, go to the park. Knowledge is king. If you do your homework you will know what the vehicle is worth and what is a fair price. However if you want to give the dealer thousands of your money and feel good about making a friend, its your money.


You can try to come to my work, but I am retired (early). I was in marketing for close to 30 years and I ALWAYS treated my customers with respect and honesty. I was very successful despite pressure from my employer to not be forthright. That is why I retired from them. Honesty and respect are not what you will find at the average dealership. If you want to pay people to be your friend, Go ahead.

 

Honesty and respect are not what you will find at the average dealership.

Sadly, you won't see me disagree with this statement. I really believe, in the long run, the car biz needs to re-evaluated. It's not just the dealership- a lot of what you see on the showroom comes straight from the manufacturers.