8 plug head firing sequence........
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Yep, you're right, I'm wrong. I'm the only bad guy here. I don't want to stay any place that I am not wanted.
It's not only Bob Ayers, even tho he's a proven liar, it seems that every comment I make seems to start some kind of contraversy, Subford, Greywolf, Cowboy, even tho I was right in my comments. In my arguments with Ayers, if you read my posts I would try to drop the subject, and let it go, but he always had to push it one more time.
I was of the opinion that probing questions creating a little contraversy and debate were healthy and helpful. Guess not.
For those I did help, iracekx, & others, good luck. So, I'll save the staff the trouble. Adios. Sorry to have brought it up. jd
It's not only Bob Ayers, even tho he's a proven liar, it seems that every comment I make seems to start some kind of contraversy, Subford, Greywolf, Cowboy, even tho I was right in my comments. In my arguments with Ayers, if you read my posts I would try to drop the subject, and let it go, but he always had to push it one more time.
I was of the opinion that probing questions creating a little contraversy and debate were healthy and helpful. Guess not.
For those I did help, iracekx, & others, good luck. So, I'll save the staff the trouble. Adios. Sorry to have brought it up. jd
Last edited by jimdandy; Aug 22, 2006 at 01:35 PM.
Postmaster
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From: Durham, NC
Originally Posted by kotzy
If the PCM fires the coils at the same moment how would the cylinder be at compression and exhaust at the same time. I think what you are referring to is
this, a four cylinder engine has a 180 degree crankshaft, # 1 is up to fire and #4 is
up on exhaust, since a signal from the crank to fire either 1 or 4 comes from the same point both coils are triggered. The coils which we call waste spark are really
center tapped coils (since we need one side of anything electrical to be at the opposite polarity to get current to flow) The center then is grounded as is the sparkplug shell or threaded part and the other end of the two windings goes to the center electrode.
The firing of cylinders 2 and 3 happens the same way 180 degrees later. I hope this makes this pretty clear as mud maybe!
this, a four cylinder engine has a 180 degree crankshaft, # 1 is up to fire and #4 is
up on exhaust, since a signal from the crank to fire either 1 or 4 comes from the same point both coils are triggered. The coils which we call waste spark are really
center tapped coils (since we need one side of anything electrical to be at the opposite polarity to get current to flow) The center then is grounded as is the sparkplug shell or threaded part and the other end of the two windings goes to the center electrode.
The firing of cylinders 2 and 3 happens the same way 180 degrees later. I hope this makes this pretty clear as mud maybe!
series by the head/block. This is how each plug gets opposite polarity
spark. There is a schematic in Rockledge's link that shows this.
Post Fiend
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From: Eastern WA
Originally Posted by jimdandy
.......it seems that every comment I make seems to start some kind of contraversy, Subford, Greywolf, Cowboy, even tho I was right in my comments..
. One thing this is good for a guy to do, and that is to strongly consider not posting or with a disclaimer when there is uncertainty in ones info. Failure to do this hurts one's credibility. As I've said before, "A wrong answer is worse than no answer at all". Why lead someone on a wild goosechase, even if the intent was good, if there is a chance that someone that knows the correct answer will come along soon? Save guesses with disclaimer until a reasonable amount of time has passed. *Oh, and please, don't spam my PM message box, thank you.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
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From: 3rd Rock
Don't take it personal, but some of us are hoping to see this forum restored to a place of correct information;
Last edited by IB Tim; Aug 22, 2006 at 04:29 PM.
Lead Driver
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From: Abilene Kansas
sorry i didnt change the tech folder... i have a hard time changing it without knowing that it is true. i have been looking on the internet to verify what you have said but frankly ive been very busy.
Matt
Matt
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If you want to be technical, be a lousy engineer!!!! To be honest both are wrong, but I'm not going there. I HATE ENGINEERS!!! What is going on seems like a petty thing anyhow.
Last edited by ranger88a; Aug 22, 2006 at 05:21 PM.
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Bob I have seen the output of these coils on a scope and I know they are opposite
polarity, however when we apply the left and right hand rules of magnetism to a winding doesn't that change the polarity? I have an old Cavalier coil sitting around here and in the next couple of days it will get the hacksaw. By the way the output is as great on the negitive as the positive. While the shop manuals don't show it I don't
see how it would work without a connection of the secondary to the grounded side of the primary.
polarity, however when we apply the left and right hand rules of magnetism to a winding doesn't that change the polarity? I have an old Cavalier coil sitting around here and in the next couple of days it will get the hacksaw. By the way the output is as great on the negitive as the positive. While the shop manuals don't show it I don't
see how it would work without a connection of the secondary to the grounded side of the primary.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Durant, OK (SOSU)
Ridiculous anyone on here finds it necessary to fight. What happened to the FTE "family"?
EIIITHER wayyy....what IS the correct info, and is it in the proper place?
And finally:
Absolutely unnecessary.
EIIITHER wayyy....what IS the correct info, and is it in the proper place?
And finally:
It's not only Bob Ayers, even tho he's a proven liar
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Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Durham, NC
Originally Posted by kotzy
Bob I have seen the output of these coils on a scope and I know they are opposite
polarity, however when we apply the left and right hand rules of magnetism to a winding doesn't that change the polarity? I have an old Cavalier coil sitting around here and in the next couple of days it will get the hacksaw. By the way the output is as great on the negitive as the positive. While the shop manuals don't show it I don't
see how it would work without a connection of the secondary to the grounded side of the primary.
polarity, however when we apply the left and right hand rules of magnetism to a winding doesn't that change the polarity? I have an old Cavalier coil sitting around here and in the next couple of days it will get the hacksaw. By the way the output is as great on the negitive as the positive. While the shop manuals don't show it I don't
see how it would work without a connection of the secondary to the grounded side of the primary.
confusing. The current path is between the 2 terminals, and the heads/block
are only needed to complete the series circuit between the 2 plugs being fired together.
Elder User
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Posts: 537
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From: Yes
Originally Posted by RangerPilot
Ridiculous anyone on here finds it necessary to fight. What happened to the FTE "family"?
EIIITHER wayyy....what IS the correct info, and is it in the proper place?
And finally:
Absolutely unnecessary.
EIIITHER wayyy....what IS the correct info, and is it in the proper place?
And finally:
Absolutely unnecessary.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 970
Likes: 3
Bob I have to ask this question. If that primary coil isn't switched to ground with points or an electrical switch how does it cause the soft iron core on which it is wound to become a magnet, which when the circuit is broken causes those magnetic lines which cut thru the secondary generating the 8 to 40,000 volts needed to fire that spark plug. I understand we now have electrical switches to accomplish this
however until I cut that coil apart my understanding of electrical theory tells me that
seondary has to have an attractor of the opposite polarity.
however until I cut that coil apart my understanding of electrical theory tells me that
seondary has to have an attractor of the opposite polarity.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Durham, NC
Originally Posted by kotzy
Bob I have to ask this question. If that primary coil isn't switched to ground with points or an electrical switch how does it cause the soft iron core on which it is wound to become a magnet, which when the circuit is broken causes those magnetic lines which cut thru the secondary generating the 8 to 40,000 volts needed to fire that spark plug. I understand we now have electrical switches to accomplish this
however until I cut that coil apart my understanding of electrical theory tells me that
seondary has to have an attractor of the opposite polarity.
however until I cut that coil apart my understanding of electrical theory tells me that
seondary has to have an attractor of the opposite polarity.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 970
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Bob, I picked up my ohm meter and checked out the coil I have, you are correct, they are not center tapped. So the coil is charged when the primary collapses
and the negitive and positive forces are discharged thru the plugs completing the circle in the head casting. Thank you for setting me straight, I seen them work and
fail, repaired them but never really took the time to check one out. See what retirement does to you.
and the negitive and positive forces are discharged thru the plugs completing the circle in the head casting. Thank you for setting me straight, I seen them work and
fail, repaired them but never really took the time to check one out. See what retirement does to you.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 3
From: Durham, NC
Originally Posted by kotzy
Bob, I picked up my ohm meter and checked out the coil I have, you are correct, they are not center tapped. So the coil is charged when the primary collapses
and the negitive and positive forces are discharged thru the plugs completing the circle in the head casting. Thank you for setting me straight, I seen them work and
fail, repaired them but never really took the time to check one out. See what retirement does to you.
and the negitive and positive forces are discharged thru the plugs completing the circle in the head casting. Thank you for setting me straight, I seen them work and
fail, repaired them but never really took the time to check one out. See what retirement does to you.
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