Sebring problems? Weiiirrrddd!
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Durant, OK (SOSU)
Sebring problems? Weiiirrrddd!
Ok some weird problems with one of my friend's '96 Chrysler Sebring. I know nobody else to ask but you guys, and this is absolutely weird.
The battery light is on about 10 minutes into driving.
The lights flicker constantly
The transmission will shift into first (slips) and second, but not third or fourth
It's getting around 8MPG
The odometer screen is dead
The radio like halfway works, the front speakers don't.
The oil light is randomly flashing.
Bad ECU? Using my "Ford methods", I troubleshot most of them. I figured the alt was on it's way out since the batt light was on. Negative, works fine. 14 and a little extra volts. The lights I'm unsure on. The transmission no idea.
Any ideas? He shoulda bought a Ford eh? Thanks guys.
The battery light is on about 10 minutes into driving.
The lights flicker constantly
The transmission will shift into first (slips) and second, but not third or fourth
It's getting around 8MPG
The odometer screen is dead
The radio like halfway works, the front speakers don't.
The oil light is randomly flashing.
Bad ECU? Using my "Ford methods", I troubleshot most of them. I figured the alt was on it's way out since the batt light was on. Negative, works fine. 14 and a little extra volts. The lights I'm unsure on. The transmission no idea.
Any ideas? He shoulda bought a Ford eh? Thanks guys.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,462
Likes: 4
From: Durant, OK (SOSU)
The radio is aftermarket, but that was 4 months ago. The power windows and locks all work as does the alarm.
The battery ground, block-frame, etc grounds are all good. Any idea where a tranny ground might be?
And no it's not misfiring.
The battery ground, block-frame, etc grounds are all good. Any idea where a tranny ground might be?
And no it's not misfiring.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
Likes: 22
From: The Big, Oregon
The tranny grounds to the engine through the bellhousing.
Usually, that set of symptoms is caused by an aftermarket radio being connected improperly, or an open in one of the plug wires. Both will cause a feedback along the CAN buss, preventing the body control module from communicating with the rest of the network.
I'd check out the radio first, though, it may have rubbed and chaffed a wire in the harness.
Also, it could be the body control module has gone out. The BCM recieves the speed signal, and communicates that to the PCM and the ECM, but usually when that goes out the power windows don't work right, the speedo goes nuts, along with the other issues you stated.
I chased a similar problem with a 98 Town&Country, turned out they had tapped the CAN buss wire for power for the radio.
Usually, that set of symptoms is caused by an aftermarket radio being connected improperly, or an open in one of the plug wires. Both will cause a feedback along the CAN buss, preventing the body control module from communicating with the rest of the network.
I'd check out the radio first, though, it may have rubbed and chaffed a wire in the harness.
Also, it could be the body control module has gone out. The BCM recieves the speed signal, and communicates that to the PCM and the ECM, but usually when that goes out the power windows don't work right, the speedo goes nuts, along with the other issues you stated.
I chased a similar problem with a 98 Town&Country, turned out they had tapped the CAN buss wire for power for the radio.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 913
Likes: 2
From: Pensacola, FL
i vote computer. too many different subsystems acting weird or dead, but the car still starts and runs. like the ecm is on "limp" mode. being a 96, that was the first year that OBDII was mandated, could be a bug in the first year from chryslers OBDII computer.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
Likes: 22
From: The Big, Oregon
Chrysler used a networked system from ~92 on, and everything he described can be traced back to the BCM. IIRC, there are three computers on that car, maybe a fourth for the airbags unless the BCM controls those too.
One thing I forgot to ask, what happened to cause this group of failures? Did they all go at once, did they go out as the car was going down the road, or were just off at startup?
The auto in that car uses a solenoid pack for shifting, and modulates the pressure to the clutch packs that way for soft engagement. That's the buzzing/clicking noise you hear on most FWD Chryslers when you put them in gear.
One thing I forgot to ask, what happened to cause this group of failures? Did they all go at once, did they go out as the car was going down the road, or were just off at startup?
The auto in that car uses a solenoid pack for shifting, and modulates the pressure to the clutch packs that way for soft engagement. That's the buzzing/clicking noise you hear on most FWD Chryslers when you put them in gear.
Last edited by Ford_Six; Aug 14, 2006 at 01:36 AM.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Alvin, Texas.
Those body control modules aren't cheap, either.
They are problematic AND you have to get one specifically coded for your vehicle from a stealership. They are not Items you can pull from a salvage yard and lob in and have things work just fine.
They are problematic AND you have to get one specifically coded for your vehicle from a stealership. They are not Items you can pull from a salvage yard and lob in and have things work just fine.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Durant, OK (SOSU)
This didn't happen at once really...though many of the problems hit in rapid succession. The tranny slipping and the God-awful noise (loud as everything) it makes with speed have existed for a long time.
The battery light started randomly 'bout two weeks ago.
Radio crapped out soon after.
Then it locked below second.
Then the random warning lights started flashing.
Then the odometer died.
Now the speedos starting to "flare" some when driving. At a constant speed (tested, I did 45 with him parallel and it kinda floated between 40 and 50) it varies.
Removed aftermarket radio, no improvement.
Thanks for the ideas guys, keep 'em comin'!
The battery light started randomly 'bout two weeks ago.
Radio crapped out soon after.
Then it locked below second.
Then the random warning lights started flashing.
Then the odometer died.
Now the speedos starting to "flare" some when driving. At a constant speed (tested, I did 45 with him parallel and it kinda floated between 40 and 50) it varies.
Removed aftermarket radio, no improvement.
Thanks for the ideas guys, keep 'em comin'!
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
Likes: 22
From: The Big, Oregon
What kind of noise are we talking about here, and where is it coming from?
Pull the VSS and check it for contact with the tone wheel, make sure the plug is tight, and the harness isn't chaffed or damaged.
Pull the VSS and check it for contact with the tone wheel, make sure the plug is tight, and the harness isn't chaffed or damaged.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
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From: Long Island USA
Did you check the charging system? Any chance it's OVER voltage?
Even better: Weak battery, alternator diodes are shorting out or going bad, and the A/C bleeding into the system is driving the computers nuts.
Is the radio noisy?
Even better: Weak battery, alternator diodes are shorting out or going bad, and the A/C bleeding into the system is driving the computers nuts.
Is the radio noisy?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Durant, OK (SOSU)
It's a really loud (like the radio has to be pretty loud to drown it out) noise that increases with speed. Sounds like it's coming from the transmission/engine area. Since it's speed and not RPM related I assume tranny.
Tracked VSS down, it's fine.
Charging system seems fine to me. Alt puts out a little over 14 volts. Battery is between 11 and 13...changes occasionally.
A/C bleeding into system?
No radio isn't noisy...sounds fine.
Tracked VSS down, it's fine.
Charging system seems fine to me. Alt puts out a little over 14 volts. Battery is between 11 and 13...changes occasionally.
A/C bleeding into system?
No radio isn't noisy...sounds fine.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
Likes: 22
From: The Big, Oregon
If the voltage at the positive jump start lug (or battery positive terminal) isn't the exact same as the voltage at the back of the alternator, then there is a problem in the charging system.
The battery should sit around 12.6 with no load on it, and the car off. If, with the engine running, you get 11-13volts at the battery with the engine running, then check the wiring, especially the terminals.
The battery should sit around 12.6 with no load on it, and the car off. If, with the engine running, you get 11-13volts at the battery with the engine running, then check the wiring, especially the terminals.
Last edited by Ford_Six; Aug 16, 2006 at 08:51 PM.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by Ford_Six
If the voltage at the positive jump start lug (or battery positive terminal) isn't the exact same as the voltage at the back of the alternator, then there is a problem in the charging system.
The battery should sit around 12.6 with no load on it, and the car off. If, with the engine running, you get 11-13volts at the battery with the engine running, then check the wiring, especially the terminals.
The battery should sit around 12.6 with no load on it, and the car off. If, with the engine running, you get 11-13volts at the battery with the engine running, then check the wiring, especially the terminals.
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