Ok, I know I have posted on this issue before, but I think I have it narrowed down to one question now.
Basically I have a 292 in my 56 f-100 with a T-87 (3HD). I want to use this 10 spline 6.5" shaft T-85 that I came across, and I don't mind saying that I am an idiot in this department. I would just like to know what the most economical way of making this specific swap would be and what parts from what other vehicles are required. I think once I get that established I will be in alot better shape with. I would really appreciate any help. Thanks alot in advance,

Mike

 

You need a conversion bellhousing. The reason why is that the truck bellhousing is also the rear engine mount. Trans-Dapt in Paso Robles, CA used to make them. They have a web site. Other than that you just use a passenger car throwout bearing and clutch disc. All other parts work. The rear mount on the transmission may have to be done with an aftermarket transmission crossmember. There are no OEM bellhousings that will work. Another way would involve mounting the engine like a passenger car with side engine mounts, passenger car bellhousing, and rear transmission mount.

Regards,

Alanco

Regards,

Alan

 

Thanks Alanco, looks like I have some work to do,

Mike

 

I think the nicest transmission for a 292 is the B-W Overdrive 3-speed. They are not to hard to come by for a truck.

 

Thats the one I'm trying to use. Its a T-85 Overdrive. I was told it came from a 64 F-100 so I didnt think I would have any trouble using it. Now I'm not sure what year it came from since the input measurements are a little off.

Mike

 

Well that's a horse of a different color. I had assumed that the overdrive tranny was out of a Ford Automobile, not a truck. Ford used tha same clutch and transmission splines 1 3/8" from 54-64. So if the tranny is a 64 F-100 it fits your '56 F-100. To put in an overdrive you need a kickdown switch, an overdrive relay, an overdrive manual cable (like a choke cable) and support for the transmission mount, and the driveshaft is shorter. It is a really easy change, and you can make up the wire harness easily. You need to change the rear axle ratio to 4.11 as the overdrive is a .7 reduction which makes a 4.11 about 2.90. The speedometer gear will be different due to the rear axle ratio. Check the input shaft on the tranny, it should be 1 3/8" if it were a pass. car tranny it would be 1 1/8".

Regards,

Alanco

 

Thats the problem though. The input is 1 1/8, so I'm assuming that it came out of a 65 or later truck, not a 64 like I was told.

Mike

 

or the engine and tranny were swapped from a car into the 64?

 

Havi isn't thinkin', the Pass car Bell doesn't have the truck rear motor mounts that the '64 still used. Ford sometimes made middle year changes but not according to my interchange manual in 64. So the input is for a '65 or later truck or a pass. car. Hmmm. I am not sure on the input shaft length. I will check for you to see if the truck input shaft length is the same as the passenger. If it is, all you need is to make a little adapter for the smaller diameter Throwout Bearing Collar to fit the truck bellhousing, and use a passenger clutch disk and throwout bearing. I need to check the pilot bushing diameter also. The other solution is to get a truck input shaft and throwout collar and put it in the tranny. I also know a person who has a complete Truck OD out of a '60. Actually, there is one slight problem in that the '53-'56 Trannys had a boss for the clutch pedal fulcrum that is missing on the later trannys. You can fabricate a clutch pedal support fairly easily. The 56 OD tranny was like the 53-55, but was 12V, which affects only the solenoid, not the governor. Details, always details........ Get back atcha tomorrow.

Alanco

 

Well, you're not gonna be liking what I looked up because my memory would not bail me out........
1. The pass. input shafts are 8 1/16 to 8 1/8" Overall length.
2. The truck input shafts are 9 5/32 to 9 5/16" overall length.
This means that you cannot use a truck bellhousing with a pass car input shaft.
The input shaft would not even reach the pilot bushing.
There used to be adapter bell housings for Ford Truck to Ford Passenger so that you could run a 4 speed, or other pass. transmissions, but they are no longer made.
Conclusions:
1. You could change the input shaft and bearing retainer, but the cost is prohibitive unless you found a donor tranny that was not complete.
2. You could use a pass. bell housing but you would have to use engine side mounts, and fabricate a clutch fulcrum support.
3. You could just locate a '56 Ford Truck T-85 OD transmission.
4. You could jus locate a '57--64 Ford Truck T-85 OD transmission and fabricate a clutch fulcrum support.
5. You could use available swap kits and use a T-5 5 speed OD tranny
6. Putting in a T-85 OD in a std trans truck involves adding a kickdown switch, an overdrive relay, and a lockout cable, and some wiring. It also involves adding a transmission support crossmember for the long overdrive transmission and shortening the driveshaft. With the T-5 5 speed, there is no wiring and the major modification is the shift lever. Needs to be farther forward.
I know of a party that has a 1960 Truck OD. I can find out what he wants for it. He is in Gardnerville, NV (near Carson City).

Since none of this is easy, and only the retention of the 292 really prohibits an easy swap of a more modern transmission, I would personally use a later engine such as the SBC or a 302 or 351, and either use an AOD or a T-5. Although Ford is making crate engines, there are issues with flywheel size, bellhousings, starters, engine balance changing, Transmissions, and other things that make using a Ford Engine cost a lot more than using a Small Block Chevy and a 700R4. In my business, most customers opt to go with Chevy engines and transmissions. The issue with your 292 has to do with Ford using one bell housing for Trucks, and another for passenger, and different input shaft lengths and sizes, and different engine mounts. As Ford went to the FE engine, the bellhousings again were different, and Trucks were different to 1964. The small block Ford had an entirely different bellhousing, and used a different one for 168 tooth flywheel used in big cars and trucks, and another for the 157 tooth flywheel used in small cars. Each flywheel used a different starter, and starters were different also for standard and automatic. The Big Block (385 series) 460-429 and the 400C used another bellhousing pattern. This makes Fords difficult to interchange engines and transmissions. Yes, even the transmissions were different between one for a small block and for a FE or 385, as the input shafts were longer on the big engines.

Contrast that to one bellhousing for Chevys,a starter that does not mount on the bellhousing, the same bellhousing for Big Block as small block, a shorter engine which fits in Fords better than Ford engines, two flywheel sizes which use the same bellhousing, and all transmissions being the same. Thus you have a much easier time swapping, particularly with older iron. Some of you get very emotional regarding Chevys and Fords, but us shop owners are a hell of a lot more practical, because Fords are much more expensive to swap, fix, or rebuild. So consider what you are going to do within the cost window that you have. You really can't afford to modify the transmission you found, and you really can't afford to build new engine mounts for your engine, and if you can't fabricate parts, you really can't use any transmission in your '56 but a '56 transmission, or you will have no clutch pedal fulcrum bracket.

I have no quarrel with those who see doing anything different to their 'ol trucks as ruining a restoration, because that is their fun. I am more of a hot rodder in that I will modify anything, and I will use entirely new parts on old vehicles. This means automatic overdrives and fuel injection on older engines, as well as using Chevy engines in Fords. GM computers are better than anybodys, including Toyota, Honda and Nissan. I just have to go with junkyard parts that are good. Then there are the Boyd Coddington types for whom cost is no object, and I do not hold with that either. But it is your truck, and you have to figure out what you can do............... I hope I have helped.

Alanco

 

Well thanks alot for laying it out like you did. Sounds like I will be reselling this T-85 afterall, and I'm really starting to look into the T-5 swap. I've found a website where a guy sells modified bellhousings for this swap. I'm just trying to find out what else is going to be on the shopping list so I can get a realistic idea of how long its going to take me to afford everything. Eventually I might go to a 302 or 351, but that will probably be when my engine gives out for good. I read a forum on this site and the guy had pictures in his gallery of his T-5 swap. I would like to know what all needs to be replaced and cost, and what can be retained from my current setup. I'm also wondering if its possible to retain the stock clutch pedal. Well, thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

Mike

 

Yes, all the T-5 swaps are made to retain the stock through the floor (as God intended it) pedal. I don't know about the clutch, in fact the diaphragm clutch would be better than stock if they use it. (as much pressure, but lower pedal effort).
Regards,
Alan

 

Great, thanks again. Now I have more searching around and scrounging up parts to do!,

Mike

 

Alanco, you mentioned you know a guy with a 3spd OD trans from a 60 truck in gardnerville NV. I live in Reno and purchased a 1962 short bed unibody w/223 six cyl. in Gardnerville (coincidence?) that is missing the transmission and am having a hard time finding one. the VIN of my 62 is F10JR301454 trans code B, axle 13 and I think it had a t86g w/ bw R11 OD unit but I'm not positive. Do you know if he still has tranny? Do you know what trans came out of it? The bellhousing, clutch assembly, linkage and OD solenoid were left on truck so I noticed a trapezoidal tranny mount bolt pattern, the bottom right bolt hole is 1 inch out of rectangle. Due to gearing amd ease of installation, I'd like to stick with the original transmission setup. Thanks Michael