Let's talk about pinging
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Elder User
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From: Seattle
Let's talk about pinging
Since my truck is pinging like crazy now, even at 92 octance I'd like to talk about what causes it.
I won't go into specifics about my case, just so I don't guide the discussion on a red herring. Also, I know we had a long discussion about gas octane ratings a while back, so let's leave that alone too please..
Anway, so I got this 2000 Ranger, 6 cylinder and it's knocking.
Nothing has been replaced and it otherwise runs perfectly fine, gas milage is within limits.
I understand that pinging is caused by pre-ignition of the fuel in the chamber but what would cause that to happen in an otherwise normally running engine? Getting carbon buildup out of the way, why would carbon be building up?
I'll throw out some examples and see where this leads, what would be the FIRST place to start looking?
Oxygen sensor
MAF sensor
EGR valve
Poor engine cooling
little guy in the chamber hitting my engine block with a hammer
If I'm pulling no codes from the engine would any of the above still apply?
I won't go into specifics about my case, just so I don't guide the discussion on a red herring. Also, I know we had a long discussion about gas octane ratings a while back, so let's leave that alone too please..
Anway, so I got this 2000 Ranger, 6 cylinder and it's knocking.
Nothing has been replaced and it otherwise runs perfectly fine, gas milage is within limits.
I understand that pinging is caused by pre-ignition of the fuel in the chamber but what would cause that to happen in an otherwise normally running engine? Getting carbon buildup out of the way, why would carbon be building up?
I'll throw out some examples and see where this leads, what would be the FIRST place to start looking?
Oxygen sensor
MAF sensor
EGR valve
Poor engine cooling
little guy in the chamber hitting my engine block with a hammer
If I'm pulling no codes from the engine would any of the above still apply?
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,940
Likes: 2
From: Eastern WA
What engine are we talking about?
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According to a TSB from Ford (applies to 4.0L engine), if you are running above 87 octane then you are promoting carbon build up.
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Originally Posted by eigenvector
.............why would carbon be building up?
Last edited by CowboyBilly9Mile; Jul 15, 2006 at 02:17 PM.
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Your right, it is pre-ignition. Generally caused by one of two things. A hot spot in the combustion chamber, or a lean air/fuel mixture.
Of course early spark timing can cause it, but that is seldom a problem in modern engines. Although there are some cases of ford re-programing some ECU's to fix it.
I have seen spark plugs burn down funny and have a small point that gets too hot and pre ignites. A little carbon can build up and create a hot spot that per ignites the A/F mixture and hence the “decarbonizing” we see reported on the forum.
Most of the rest can be traced to a lean mixture, IE; vaccumn leaks, exhaust gas recirculation, O2 sensors, low fuel pressure/clogged fuel filters, most anything that will cause a lean condition the ecu can't compensate for.
Ford does allow for some pinging as normal, but it sounds like yours is excessive.
Dave
Of course early spark timing can cause it, but that is seldom a problem in modern engines. Although there are some cases of ford re-programing some ECU's to fix it.
I have seen spark plugs burn down funny and have a small point that gets too hot and pre ignites. A little carbon can build up and create a hot spot that per ignites the A/F mixture and hence the “decarbonizing” we see reported on the forum.
Most of the rest can be traced to a lean mixture, IE; vaccumn leaks, exhaust gas recirculation, O2 sensors, low fuel pressure/clogged fuel filters, most anything that will cause a lean condition the ecu can't compensate for.
Ford does allow for some pinging as normal, but it sounds like yours is excessive.
Dave
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From: Seattle
Originally Posted by Dave257
Your right, it is pre-ignition. Generally caused by one of two things. A hot spot in the combustion chamber, or a lean air/fuel mixture.
Of course early spark timing can cause it, but that is seldom a problem in modern engines. Although there are some cases of ford re-programing some ECU's to fix it.
I have seen spark plugs burn down funny and have a small point that gets too hot and pre ignites. A little carbon can build up and create a hot spot that per ignites the A/F mixture and hence the “decarbonizing” we see reported on the forum.
Most of the rest can be traced to a lean mixture, IE; vaccumn leaks, exhaust gas recirculation, O2 sensors, low fuel pressure/clogged fuel filters, most anything that will cause a lean condition the ecu can't compensate for.
Ford does allow for some pinging as normal, but it sounds like yours is excessive.
Dave
Of course early spark timing can cause it, but that is seldom a problem in modern engines. Although there are some cases of ford re-programing some ECU's to fix it.
I have seen spark plugs burn down funny and have a small point that gets too hot and pre ignites. A little carbon can build up and create a hot spot that per ignites the A/F mixture and hence the “decarbonizing” we see reported on the forum.
Most of the rest can be traced to a lean mixture, IE; vaccumn leaks, exhaust gas recirculation, O2 sensors, low fuel pressure/clogged fuel filters, most anything that will cause a lean condition the ecu can't compensate for.
Ford does allow for some pinging as normal, but it sounds like yours is excessive.
Dave
So what it boils down to, where would you start first? Replace the fuel filter?
And by the way, is there a simple way to remove those tamper pins from the MAF sensor harness screws?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,748
Likes: 16
From: Connecticut
Pinging
Check out Section V on this page:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=131256
Cut a slit in the heads of the MAF tamper proof screws with a Dremel tool and then use a regular screwdriver to remove them. Replace the factory screws with regular screws and lockwashers for easier access in the future.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=131256
Cut a slit in the heads of the MAF tamper proof screws with a Dremel tool and then use a regular screwdriver to remove them. Replace the factory screws with regular screws and lockwashers for easier access in the future.
Last edited by Rockledge; Jul 16, 2006 at 01:07 AM.
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From: Seattle
Very Cool
Quite a collection this forum has going for it.
So it doesn't look like I have the bad coil, and since it pings using premium unleaded I guess I should take a look at the EGR system and the MAF sensor. The MAF is the original and it could probably use a replacement - if I can figure out how to get rid of those tamper pins!!
The only gripe I'm gonna give is the DPFE sensor, which I had the bad luck of stripping out one of the screws to it - so it entirely possible that over time my sensor has worked it's way loose from the intake and now I'm leaking.
So it doesn't look like I have the bad coil, and since it pings using premium unleaded I guess I should take a look at the EGR system and the MAF sensor. The MAF is the original and it could probably use a replacement - if I can figure out how to get rid of those tamper pins!!
The only gripe I'm gonna give is the DPFE sensor, which I had the bad luck of stripping out one of the screws to it - so it entirely possible that over time my sensor has worked it's way loose from the intake and now I'm leaking.
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Elder User
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From: Seattle
Originally Posted by Rockledge
Cut a slit in the heads of the MAF tamper proof screws with a Dremel tool and then use a regular screwdriver to remove them. Replace the factory screws with regular screws and lockwashers for easier access in the future.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: suburban atlanta
I'd be looking at plugged EGR passages. It holds a vacuum, but does it flow any EG? Try applying a vacuum when idling. Should cause major burps and complaints. If not, remove the EGR and clean the passages or exhaust tube.
And once again, you can spritz H2O into the intake while idling at a fast idle, and 'steam' clean the tops of the pistons. Even if it just does a little, you may note a difference going down the road and be able to determine if a full-boat cleanout using the 'special sauce' applied directly thru the injectors is worth the $$.
tom
And once again, you can spritz H2O into the intake while idling at a fast idle, and 'steam' clean the tops of the pistons. Even if it just does a little, you may note a difference going down the road and be able to determine if a full-boat cleanout using the 'special sauce' applied directly thru the injectors is worth the $$.
tom
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Eastern WA
Originally Posted by CowboyBilly9Mile
What engine are we talking about?
Thank you
Last edited by CowboyBilly9Mile; Jul 17, 2006 at 09:59 PM.
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From: Seattle
Damn
You really hold your advice in high esteem. I'm sorry if I kept you waiting sir. So far I think the other members here have given me excellent advice and educated me on the topic, but I won't ignore you since you're so gratiously offering help.
As I said in the top, its a 6 cylinder, but to clarify its a 3.0 liter, fuel injected engine.
Actually I'm pretty sure I already took care of the problem, as was suggested by other people, the MAF sensor was pretty dirty and a vacuum line was slightly loose - probably knocked off when I had to swap out the DPFE sensor way back when. Except for a can of carb cleaner I haven't spend any money so far, although I was about to give the injectors a cleaning too.
As I said in the top, its a 6 cylinder, but to clarify its a 3.0 liter, fuel injected engine.
Actually I'm pretty sure I already took care of the problem, as was suggested by other people, the MAF sensor was pretty dirty and a vacuum line was slightly loose - probably knocked off when I had to swap out the DPFE sensor way back when. Except for a can of carb cleaner I haven't spend any money so far, although I was about to give the injectors a cleaning too.
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From: DIXIE
I know that you fixed it but I thought I would add this incase someone ever searches this thread...
One thing that I would look at if it is a 3.0L is the two coolant lines that feed into the intake. If you pull those off, splice them together then you will have cooler air going into the intake. This made a big difference on my old 3.0l.
I would go ahead and do some maintenance such as seafoam treatment, clean TB, Clean MAF, Clean IAT and replace the air filter. I would also confirm that the egr is opening like it should. If the EGR stays closed you will get severe pinging. This could be a faulty DPFE or EGR valve.
One thing that I would look at if it is a 3.0L is the two coolant lines that feed into the intake. If you pull those off, splice them together then you will have cooler air going into the intake. This made a big difference on my old 3.0l.
I would go ahead and do some maintenance such as seafoam treatment, clean TB, Clean MAF, Clean IAT and replace the air filter. I would also confirm that the egr is opening like it should. If the EGR stays closed you will get severe pinging. This could be a faulty DPFE or EGR valve.
Last edited by jbabbler; Jul 18, 2006 at 11:52 AM.