Running a bit too hot
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Running a bit too hot
I have a 90 E-350 Cube Van that has a 351W & its running up by the "L" in the word normal.
\ N O R M A L /
Now I drove it 60 miles & it never wavered from the "L" in normal. My thinking is that the Theromostat should be replaced & I bought one but when taking the old T-stat out the first T-stat to block bolt was Very tight I quit wrenching because Im scared the bolt might snap off into the block (you know that feeling when its happened before so Im gun shy about putting a breaker bar on a bolt of this kind) So first off is it common to snap off t-stat bolts or does it rarely or never happen on these motors? 2nd question is do you think this is my problem?
I friend of mine that has owned a pickup with this same motor says that he has had good luck with taking out the radiator & cleaning the fins & flushing the insides with a power washer.
The oil is clean & the coolant is nice & green so I dont suspect any engine problems here.
Whats your guess could it be the t-stat or the radiator.
BTW I threw another used radiator cap on & it didnt change a thing.
\ N O R M A L /
Now I drove it 60 miles & it never wavered from the "L" in normal. My thinking is that the Theromostat should be replaced & I bought one but when taking the old T-stat out the first T-stat to block bolt was Very tight I quit wrenching because Im scared the bolt might snap off into the block (you know that feeling when its happened before so Im gun shy about putting a breaker bar on a bolt of this kind) So first off is it common to snap off t-stat bolts or does it rarely or never happen on these motors? 2nd question is do you think this is my problem?
I friend of mine that has owned a pickup with this same motor says that he has had good luck with taking out the radiator & cleaning the fins & flushing the insides with a power washer.
The oil is clean & the coolant is nice & green so I dont suspect any engine problems here.
Whats your guess could it be the t-stat or the radiator.
BTW I threw another used radiator cap on & it didnt change a thing.
Last edited by lost_in_space; Jul 5, 2006 at 09:00 PM.
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I bought it like this. The dummy that owned it before drove it & never really knew any better. I just know that is too high for my taste.
Im going to try flushing out the radiator & changeing the t-stat (providing the bolts dont snap off )
What is the procedure for testing the clutch fan? it dosnt seem to have any play by grasping the top & bottom fins.
thanks for your continued help
Im going to try flushing out the radiator & changeing the t-stat (providing the bolts dont snap off )
What is the procedure for testing the clutch fan? it dosnt seem to have any play by grasping the top & bottom fins.
thanks for your continued help
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
So I gather that it has always read at the "L" of "NORMAL"? Do any of your other gauges read high? If so the problem may be the Instrument Voltage regulator (IVR) located behind the instrument cluster. The best way to determine if you are actually running hot is to install a mechanical gauge to check against the vehicle temp gauge. Could also be a dirty or faulty sending unit. No question that the radiator and clutch fan need to be looked at to be sure that you are getting adequate airflow and coolant heat dissipation. If the clutch is working properly you should be able to hear it when it engages completely. Also, with the engine hot and not running you should feel definite resistance when trying to turn the fan. As far as getting the thermostat housing bolts out, you might try striking them on the head before you try and turn them out. If you have a impact you might try removing them at reduced pressure. The vibration caused by theimpact will often cause them to loosen. Replace the bolts with new ones and coat the threads with antisieze before you reinstall them.
John
John
Last edited by jtmerritt; Jul 6, 2006 at 03:08 PM.
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My 88 460 runs between M and L and then the fan kicks on just above the L. Now I don't know about the 351 as I've only had this and 302's, but when my fan clutch kicks in, it roars very loud. The first time it happened it scared me but luckily my uncle had informed me about it. On my 302's I've had I never heard it so they are much quieter as I'm sure mine have kicked on as I've owned 2 of them for years.
The Ford OEM gauge is junk. I wouldn't trust it.
The Ford OEM gauge is junk. I wouldn't trust it.
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Ok bad news one of the t-stat bolts snapped off. I havnt tried the 2nd bolt yet. It appears that once the housing cover is off I may have a little bit of a stud of the bolt sticking out. Damnit I knew this was going to happen. The suck news is that this is a Van so access isnt as good as a truck or car but I can still get at it.
Ive read that easy-outs are too risky because If you snap off one of those your screwed. Would you suggest left handed drill bits? or just drilling out the bolt? Also Im not sure if Im going to be able to get a straight shot at it with a drill?
Now if things get really bad would you try applying JB-Weld to the entire cover & installing what would then be a Permenant Thermostat? I know this is dumb but removing the intake is out of the question. & If it gets down to this which brand of T-stat has the longest life span considering it could Never come out again?
Ive read that easy-outs are too risky because If you snap off one of those your screwed. Would you suggest left handed drill bits? or just drilling out the bolt? Also Im not sure if Im going to be able to get a straight shot at it with a drill?
Now if things get really bad would you try applying JB-Weld to the entire cover & installing what would then be a Permenant Thermostat? I know this is dumb but removing the intake is out of the question. & If it gets down to this which brand of T-stat has the longest life span considering it could Never come out again?
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 495
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
The problem with a drill and tap is that you may not have enough metal around that area and run the risk of losing the manifold. Since you have the stress off the bolt it would seem that you can remove the stud with a set of vise grips. Howvere, I would soak that stud with PB Blaster and let it set for a while before I would go at it. Also, do you have a propane torch that you can hit it with a little heat to try and loosen it up? I would go the route of the left hand drill bits before an easy out since they have a tendency to break off, or at least they do for me! Another thing you might try is if you have a Dremel tool and the stud seems solid enough you could cut a slot in the head of the stud so that you can put a large screwdriver to it. I'm not sure I would trust JB Weld to hold and not leak, plus I don't think a permanent thermostat housing is the answer, especially if you wind up with a faulty thermostat along the way.
John
John
Last edited by jtmerritt; Jul 7, 2006 at 02:37 PM.
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I question the JB weld too because of the pressure that is in the cooling system. JB Weld holds up great for attaching things to other things but not if there's pressure involved. I have used JB Weld where my 460's exhaust manifold studs have broke at the back of the engine. It seems to only last about 150 miles. Of course the heat may be the problem too but I wouldn't chance the JB Weld.
I do agree about the reverse drill bit but not the slot. If it broke with a wrench you'll just strip out the slot if you try and use that method. File the bolt down flat and if you have a center punch, use it before trying the drill method. I would start about half the size of the bolt and move up to a bigger one each time if it doesn't come right out. Definitely put some kind of penetrating oil on it overnight before you try it.
I do agree about the reverse drill bit but not the slot. If it broke with a wrench you'll just strip out the slot if you try and use that method. File the bolt down flat and if you have a center punch, use it before trying the drill method. I would start about half the size of the bolt and move up to a bigger one each time if it doesn't come right out. Definitely put some kind of penetrating oil on it overnight before you try it.
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Man I was lucky there was enough of a stud left for me to get this nice sears extrator socket on. man o man is that a handy set I got for x-mas 2 years ago this set removes broken stud & rounded bolt head. Saved my *** again!
New t-stat made no difference , flush made no difference, welding the clutch fan (to always stay on) didnt help. Guess what, a put a aftermarket temp sensor & gauge & it never exceeds 195f just like its supposed to. what a relief!!
thanks everyone
now does anyone have a idea why my dome light dims & brightens with the engine running my volts from the battery at idle jump back & forth between low 14 volts to mid 14 volts (ie 14.05 to 14.40)
New t-stat made no difference , flush made no difference, welding the clutch fan (to always stay on) didnt help. Guess what, a put a aftermarket temp sensor & gauge & it never exceeds 195f just like its supposed to. what a relief!!
thanks everyone
now does anyone have a idea why my dome light dims & brightens with the engine running my volts from the battery at idle jump back & forth between low 14 volts to mid 14 volts (ie 14.05 to 14.40)
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,776
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From: Lorain County, Ohio
Kiss your kids, get the wife some flowers, thank whatever diety you believe in, and head to the casino. The chance of that bolt stub coming out without a fight was really slim. They are usually corroded into the intake IMHE. Sounds like most of your corrosion was between the t-stat housing and the bolt.
As for your flashing interior lights and varying voltage, that's usually a failing diode in the alternator. If you look, the headlamps are likely doing the same. Turn on the radio to AM and tune it off station, you'll probably hear a whine in time with the flashing. Alt diodes usually fail open which causes insufficient charging. Yours is shorted (or mostly shorted) causing AC ripple in the system and confusing the regulator. It happens occasionally.
Sure glad you got that bolt out.
As for your flashing interior lights and varying voltage, that's usually a failing diode in the alternator. If you look, the headlamps are likely doing the same. Turn on the radio to AM and tune it off station, you'll probably hear a whine in time with the flashing. Alt diodes usually fail open which causes insufficient charging. Yours is shorted (or mostly shorted) causing AC ripple in the system and confusing the regulator. It happens occasionally.
Sure glad you got that bolt out.
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I believe that the regulator is on the alternator on this engine. Diode packs and regulators are known for failure on these because most places use standard diode packs instead of heavy duty ones. Any rebuild you get will have the standard diodes on it. Goto a special alternator/motor shop and ask them to rebuild it with heavy duty parts if you decide to have that done. They can also check the diodes out for you. It's really simple. It's pretty simple getting the alternator out too. Since I've done it before I can get one out and back in in less than half an hour. I rebuilt my own after having so much failure with aftermarket rebuilds. I just get the heavy duty components from an alternator shop. The brushes can be a real pain if you replace those which you should do if it's rebuilt anyway.
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yea I kind of figured it was the alternator or Voltage regulator. I still see that exterior voltage regulator on the front of the pass headlight area. It has the typical " I A F " I forget the other letter. But I do believe it has the exterior voltage regulator . I have some extras sitting around should I give it a shot? I also have a ectra alternator (came out a running van) but not sure the exact health of it.
I may dick with this van again tomorrow. Ill keep you all posted. thanks for your participation.
I may dick with this van again tomorrow. Ill keep you all posted. thanks for your participation.
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The 2 E-150's I've had are/were 302's Maybe they use an external voltage reg. I do remember the first time I changed one and got it at Autozone or Advanced and they asked me if it had an external or internal reg. At that time I didn't know what it had.
It sure wouldn't hurt to try another regulator if you've got one around. I know I would.
Good luck.
It sure wouldn't hurt to try another regulator if you've got one around. I know I would.
Good luck.
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