But now I really need some help..After some research on the greatest web site in the entire world,this one of course, I came upon a thread that mentioned a "thicker" aftermarket timing chain set on a fe352 sometimes required a spacer to be removed from behind the top gear, otherwise the fuel pump cam would bang against the timing chain cover...Well, on my newly aquired '67 f250, there is a fresh two inch oval type circle ground into the timing chain cover..Looks kinda suspicious...My question is, Is the spacer the first thing you come to when you pull the timing gear off...If it is then I have already found it..Otherwise I need some help here.Thanks,Mark.

 

Well, I went to the auto parts store and bought a new coyles timing chain set...It is virtually identical to the one that is already in there..The only diff. is that the pin for the fuel pump eccentric fits snuf in the new gear opposed to pretty sloppy in the original. The instructions in the new set very clearly shows that if the large gear has a "Built In" spacer, I am suppose to remove the spacer that is on the snout of the cam. The shop that installed the original gear did not remove the spacer which I'm sure is why the eccentric was banging against the timing cover....This is where I run into my new problem....I tried to install the new,identical coyles gear as per instruction by removing the existing spacer and the top gear sets too deep into the block. Not resting on the front of the cam but,literally smashed right into the block..Almost like the cam is set too far back into the block.So, to sum it all up,,,If I install the set with the spacer it bangs into the timing cover...If I install the set with out, it mashes into the block begore it makes contact with the front of the cam....Does any one have any idea what I might do???Is the cam somehow jammed back too far into the block? I bought this truck from a fellow who had the timing set replaced by a shop in Olympia....The shop calls him up after they are done with the job and tells him the timing gear job is done but he has a "new" problem.Some how they convinced him the engine developed a "wrist pin" knockwhile it was sitting in there shop getting a new timing chain...He paid them for the timing chain job and limped his truck home and it sat until last week when he advertised it on craigslist as a truck that needed a wrist pin....All this happend last August.Sorry for the long post...But I'm on the verge of having a dandy '67 for not much money...Any help appreciated.

 

mark, it sounds like the cam retainer plate is missing or worn badly. Is there a plate about 1/8" thick with two screws holding the cam into the block? That plate and the cam gear are what position the gear and cam in the proper place, the plate is sandwiched between the two parts.

 

Putt, Thanks for the reply. Yes, The plate with the two screws is there..I put it all back together last nite so I cant just run out to the garage and look at it but, I intend to tear into it again today..What should I check for as far as this plate being worn out?Thanks.

 

And,I dont know how I missed this last nite,actually I didn't miss it, I just didn't give it much thought.. but the timing gear has also been riding on the cam retainer plate.A nice shiney ring about 1/2 inch wide around the center opening...Not very deep but gouged a little bit also..I took the retainer plate off and screwed the eccentric bolt into the end of the cam..There is absolutly no fore and aft movement of the cam..Should there be? Also, I can see about 1/8" of the inside of front cam bearing.As if the cam is too far aft by an eight.That cant be right..I want to crank the engine over and watch the end of the cam..Can I do this safely,so long as I disconnect the coil wire? Thanks for any help.

 

I wouldn't turn over the crank without the cam turning, you'll bang valves against pistons. Sounds like cam was pushed back into the block, the end of the cam thrust area should be flush with the back of the cam thrust plate when the plate is bolted to the block. When the cam sprocket is torqued down you should have .003" minimum to app .008" end clearance on the thrust plate. I had .021" once with a Edelbrock's True Roller timing set where the step on the gear was too long from the factory. I cut it down on the lathe for .003" when assembled. That thrust plate is hard as hell, if not scored up too bad you can sand paper it smooth or better yet replace it. With cam and sprocket installed I would run a straight edge across both to check for correct alignment, this is without the chain installed then add chain later if alignment is ok. Trust no one on replacement parts, there are production screw ups.

.....=o&o>.....

 

I turned the fuel pump eccentric cup over and threded the bolt thru it and was able to pull the cam foward that eight of an inch it was set back into the block. Slid foward very easly and I now have it flush with the back of the cam plate or cam retainer plate as I was calling it. Installed the cam gear,turned the eccentric over the correct way, installed it and torqued to 40 lbs. The dowel pin now sticks out the correct amount to engage the fuel pump cam. But, I have no end clearence between the retainer plate and cam gear..The back of the cam gear is riding on the retainer plate...Same deal on both of my cam gear sprockets...(I have two new ones)If I install the spacer now, same deal as before, dowel is too short to engage the eccentric and the eccentric bangs on the timing cover...What is suppose to keep the cam from riding back into the block? Is there a spacer on the back side of the engine that may be too thin?I'm gettin kinda lost here...

 

mark-the cam gear is the rearward movement thrust surface, it rides against the cam plate to limit rearward movement. The cam itself rides against the rear of the cam plate to limit forward movement.

Have you pulled the cam plate to check BOTH sides of it?? Any roughness could cause an incorrect endplay. You have it assembled correctly without the spacer, there is some issue with the gear, cam plate and/or the cam itself that is throwing off the endplay.

 

There should be a stepped shoulder on the back of the cam gear, this step is a few thousanths longer than the thrust plate thickness for cam end float unless they gave you one that requires a spacer. With the cam sprocket on a table and thrust plate in position on sprocket, a straight edge across the end of the shoulder you should have a few thousanths of an inch clearance to the thrust plate. The thrust face on the cam clean before you assembled? When your bolted up did you run a straight edge across the cam and crank sprocket to check the alignment? That must of been a chain and sprocket killer misalignment you had before.
The thrust plate scored up so bad that metal is sticking up above the thrust plate surface? A worn thrust plate will only increase end clearance a few thousanths of an inch more.
I would go to the parts store with your two new gear sets and thrust plate, show them if the step is shorter than the thrust plate thickness, the parts store gave you two messed up timing sets if that's the problem.
As I posted before I had a cam gear with the step too long resulted in excess cam end float, you may have a step that is shorter than the thrust plate thickness. Manufactures can and will screw up.
As far as a problem with the cam, it has a flat surface for the cam gear to bottom out against as well the thrust plate.
I would take the thrust plate and lay it on the cam gear at the parts store and ask them WTF? It's something simple but what?

I like a good mystery before bed time.

.....=o&o>.....

 

Putt and Beemer Nut,Thank you both for your assistance...I took the cam plate off, emery clothed both sides and reinstalled without the original spacer, torqued to 40 foot lbs, put her all back together..She purs like a kitten....That spacer caused a whole list of problems...Erratic chatter during rev. Constant lope at all speeds, engine wobble to name a few...The worst part of the whole deal is that shop cost that kid his truck and also the price of the timing chain job that they botched..I'm hoping that with him driving it about a mile to get it home and me idleing it for a half hour or so did not do any real damage with the cam being pushed back an eight of an inch.It sure runs well now. I really want to call him up and tell him he needs to go talk to that shop owner but my wife is saying thats a bad idea.She's probably right.That FE motor has got some snort...I ran her down the road a few times..Nutin' like the 302 in my '70...I gotta tell ya.I feel bad for that kid, but I got a serious grin going...Thanks again.

 

Success is soooo sweet!!!! Glad to hear its on the road.

 

I would reccomend a couple of oil and filter changes with short miles to be sure and get all of the metal shavings out that were cut from the front housing as you mentioned.

Jon

Congrats on getting her going, love the feel of success.

 

I wouldn't worry about the aluminum or die cast crapo timing cover particles worn off but what the cam and lifters were doing after being worn in then the cam pushed back 3/16", new wear pattern started? With the short time and mileage driven you should be ok and not worry, just that "what if" thinking.
Depending on how many miles and how much crank end float you have will determine crank and cam sprocket alignment or misalignment you'll have. When set correctly (align checked with straight edge) you'll increase timing chain and sprocket life 10's of thousands of miles.
Good to hear it's corrected and running again.

.....=o&o>.....

 

Beemer Nut, I took a look at the crank and cam sproket alighment..It is certainly not dead on..I laid the edge of a straight edge, (steel Starrett ruller) across both gear faces and it "rocked" back and forth..Not much but it was noticable.Just guessing I would say .025 or .030... Is this enough to cause a problem? If so, is there a way to correct this?

 

Mark I should take pictures of what happened to my cam due to this same screwup. I tore the motor down as it was in order anyhow (bad exhaust valve) and a knock which I'm sure was related to the cam/lifter issue. the lifters literally cut new sides in the next lobe as the cam was forced back. This caused a raised edge that was brittle once the spacer issue was corrected the irratic clacking was gone but it developed a knock that got progressively worse. I thionk there is a shot in my album actually.not very clear but there. I'd take it easy on the truck and keep an ear open.. may be needing a cam and lifter set before long..