With that said, this is why I have left my truck stock...oh, and the warranty thing.
EGR Programming (Interesting Post I Found On Internet)
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Got Diesel?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,345
Likes: 21
EGR Programming (Interesting Post I Found On Internet)
While surfing the internet and other sites, I came accross a post from a diesel tech that posted the following information.
Can someone here comment or add anyhting to it or is is detailed post correct and possibly the reason for problems when using aftermarket intakes and exhausts???
The reason for posting is not to make this a flamming thread on aftermarket parts, but for all of to learn about the EGR valve and the effects this highly sensorized motor is working. With so many sensors, it is resonable to think that this gentleman maybe on to something???
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Since the actual "strategy" of electronic engine controls are typically a guarded secret by the manufacturers, they are never publicly published as far as I am aware. The following is "my personal interpretation" based on my knowledge and experience. If you know differently or agree with this, please speak up! Some of what I wrote is based on what is contained in the 6.0L OBD2 theory and operation publication which explains the mechanics of what happens, but, it's the REASON behind what's going on and why is what I am trying to explain, not only to you but to myself!
The turbocharger is actually controlled by adjusting the vanes to achieve a desired back pressure as measured by the EBP sensor. This back pressure is used to control manifold boost pressure. When the PCM opens the EGR valve, it controls it by reading the sensor that is inside the valve indicating it's position. But EGR is not as simple as that. There are several sensors that the PCM uses to calculate the amount of EGR FLOW and one of those sensors is... you guessed it, the EBP sensor! If the EGR valve fails to open (for whatever reason) the back pressure in the exhaust manifold remains unchanged indicating a low flow condition. The PCM is likely closing the vanes in the turbocharger in an attempt to raise the back pressure to increase EGR flow. In doing this, the turbocharger turbine loses the volume of expanding gasses it needs to turn at high speed and it slows down. This should help EGR flow by increasing back pressure in the exhaust but it also causes lower boost pressure in the intake manifold.
Now do you see just how important the EBP sensor is to the operation of this engine? The EGR and VGT perform a delicate but wicked dance balanced upon a tiny little sensor. In reality, the two systems actually fight each other. This is also the reason that making significant changes to the flow of air in and out of the engine by installing aftermarket intake and exhaust systems to your truck can cause performance issues.
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Ford Master Diesel Technician
Diesel Technician Society
Can someone here comment or add anyhting to it or is is detailed post correct and possibly the reason for problems when using aftermarket intakes and exhausts???
The reason for posting is not to make this a flamming thread on aftermarket parts, but for all of to learn about the EGR valve and the effects this highly sensorized motor is working. With so many sensors, it is resonable to think that this gentleman maybe on to something???
---------------------------------------------
Since the actual "strategy" of electronic engine controls are typically a guarded secret by the manufacturers, they are never publicly published as far as I am aware. The following is "my personal interpretation" based on my knowledge and experience. If you know differently or agree with this, please speak up! Some of what I wrote is based on what is contained in the 6.0L OBD2 theory and operation publication which explains the mechanics of what happens, but, it's the REASON behind what's going on and why is what I am trying to explain, not only to you but to myself!
The turbocharger is actually controlled by adjusting the vanes to achieve a desired back pressure as measured by the EBP sensor. This back pressure is used to control manifold boost pressure. When the PCM opens the EGR valve, it controls it by reading the sensor that is inside the valve indicating it's position. But EGR is not as simple as that. There are several sensors that the PCM uses to calculate the amount of EGR FLOW and one of those sensors is... you guessed it, the EBP sensor! If the EGR valve fails to open (for whatever reason) the back pressure in the exhaust manifold remains unchanged indicating a low flow condition. The PCM is likely closing the vanes in the turbocharger in an attempt to raise the back pressure to increase EGR flow. In doing this, the turbocharger turbine loses the volume of expanding gasses it needs to turn at high speed and it slows down. This should help EGR flow by increasing back pressure in the exhaust but it also causes lower boost pressure in the intake manifold.
Now do you see just how important the EBP sensor is to the operation of this engine? The EGR and VGT perform a delicate but wicked dance balanced upon a tiny little sensor. In reality, the two systems actually fight each other. This is also the reason that making significant changes to the flow of air in and out of the engine by installing aftermarket intake and exhaust systems to your truck can cause performance issues.
--------------------
Ford Master Diesel Technician
Diesel Technician Society
Jäger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,491
Likes: 5
From: Northern Arizona
Nice find! I certainly know far less than a Ford Master Technician. I've not disconnected my 6.0's EGR due to my concerns about the multiple sensors and how the computer would possibly react to doing that.
I have added an MBRP 4" Cat-back exhaust. I don't believe the flow increases enough that the computer cannot adjust for that. However, the 'missing' EGR confusing the computer and sensors makes sense. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
I have added an MBRP 4" Cat-back exhaust. I don't believe the flow increases enough that the computer cannot adjust for that. However, the 'missing' EGR confusing the computer and sensors makes sense. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,508
Likes: 0
From: Utopia
my trucks run better with them unplugged. A little slower, runs cooler egts and the oil stays cleaner. I won't change my intake but am thinking about ditching the cat, muffler and doing a turbo back exhaust
Senior User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta GA
Originally Posted by larry schultz
so would it be smart to run a dummy EGR to fool the pcm and would it run better more boost?
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Elder User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 652
Likes: 1
I tryed the dummy EGR, I made A alluminum plug for the maniflod with A hole in the top for the EGR valve to sit in, the check engine light still came on because there wasn't any presure change in the exhaust flow.
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
This is a timely post at least for me. I decided to unplug my EGR valve last weekend. But every other engine start now gives me CEL 403. I hate driving around with the CEL on and although easy to reset becomes a PITA pretty fast. I guess I'll leave mine plugged in.
Senior User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta GA
Originally Posted by F250Wheels
I tryed the dummy EGR, I made A alluminum plug for the maniflod with A hole in the top for the EGR valve to sit in, the check engine light still came on because there wasn't any presure change in the exhaust flow.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by LOOnatic
Hey leskwvo i'm curious as to whether using wvo keeps the EGR valve cleaner than diesel?
Have you pulled the EGR to look at it?
Have you pulled the EGR to look at it?
When I do I'll take pics and post them on my site.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 19,098
Likes: 8
From: Great State of Texas
By Ford's own programming the EBP sensor was deemed obsolete on the '03/early '04 engine builds. So IMO, in regards to those engines, this is a mute point.
With the new reflashes this seems to be a very valid point by this highly regarded Ford tech.
It seems though that even with the new EGR Valve, PCM, EBP sensor, VGT Valve strategy etc., on the newer engines....the EGR valve has continuing issues...just delayed due to the new strategy reducing valve activation.
These are just my thoughts and observations. In no way do I pretend to be an authority on the workings of this highly sensitive engine.
I do know, however, that my EGR Valve has been disabled for over 24,000 miles, with and without a programmer. She has never been in the shop for any mechanical issues short of recalls.
With that said, the later '04, '05, and '06 engine builds may see little, if any, benefit from disconnecting the EGR Valve. But, it does seem that it is destined to fail...eventually.
Again, just my opinion.
With the new reflashes this seems to be a very valid point by this highly regarded Ford tech.
It seems though that even with the new EGR Valve, PCM, EBP sensor, VGT Valve strategy etc., on the newer engines....the EGR valve has continuing issues...just delayed due to the new strategy reducing valve activation.
These are just my thoughts and observations. In no way do I pretend to be an authority on the workings of this highly sensitive engine.
I do know, however, that my EGR Valve has been disabled for over 24,000 miles, with and without a programmer. She has never been in the shop for any mechanical issues short of recalls.
With that said, the later '04, '05, and '06 engine builds may see little, if any, benefit from disconnecting the EGR Valve. But, it does seem that it is destined to fail...eventually.
Again, just my opinion.
Senior User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta GA
KW...
I agree with you, D/C'ed mine about 5k ago and the only problem I would like to solve is the lost boost(1-5psi). And avoid having to buy a 2nd EGR to plug into. Can this be done? Is there a way to cap or plug the hole to prevent the airflow? How can we yet again trick the beast into better performance? lol
I agree with you, D/C'ed mine about 5k ago and the only problem I would like to solve is the lost boost(1-5psi). And avoid having to buy a 2nd EGR to plug into. Can this be done? Is there a way to cap or plug the hole to prevent the airflow? How can we yet again trick the beast into better performance? lol