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Referees vs. Seahawks

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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 01:22 PM
  #61  
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rbohm
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a few so called bad calls do not a game make, but lets look at those calls;

1: the pass interference call against the seahawks. the receiver had his arm extended, and was touching the defender, and that by rule IS pass interference. the cluncher on this though is wher the referee was, right behind the play in full view. if the official had been to one side or the other, that call would likely have not been made.

2: the rothlisburger touchdown. if you watch the replay in slow motion, the white stripe on the ball touches the white stripe of the goal line, and that means the nose of the ball broke the plane of the endzone, and thus it was a proper call.

3: the phantom holding call. holding can be called on every play in the game if the officials choose to do so. but how about the holding calls that were not made that blind men watching drag racing could see?

4: the crack back block against the seahawk QB. i can see this one being rather questionable, but the rule does state that an offensive player is not allowed to hit a defensive player below the waist, so technically this call too is correct, though i agree it is also quite questionable. i doubt however that the outcome would have been any different as i think pitt would still have scored a touchdown anyway as the receiver would have had to run another 15 yards, and he was wide open when he caught the ball.

now lets look at a few problems the seahawks had that really did cost them the game;

1: two missed field goals. that is 6 points right there.

2: twice receivers stepped out of bounds while catching a pass, once at the 1 yard line.

4: several dropped *****.

5: extremely poor clock management.

6: the inability to stop the steelers run game when they needed to.

in the last 1:51 of the game, the seahawks got off two plays in 51 seconds, rather than 4 or 5 that they should have gotten off. had they got 4 plays off in that 51 seconds, even if two or three had been successful, they would have been alot closer. then had they kicked a field goal, since they needed two scores anyway, they would then have had a shot with an onside kick.

the point here is that the seahawks were their own worst enemy, not the officials. there have been plenty of games where my favorite teams were on the losing end, of a very poor officiated game, and while the officials played a part in their loss, the team still lost the game because they didnt execute like they should have.

stop the crying and accept the outcome as it is.
 

Last edited by rbohm; Feb 8, 2006 at 01:27 PM.
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 01:52 PM
  #62  
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Mil1ion
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Quote:
1:the pass interference call against the seahawks. the receiver had his arm extended, and was touching the defender, and that by rule IS pass interference. the cluncher on this though is wher the referee was, right behind the play in full view. if the official had been to one side or the other, that call would likely have not been made.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMU, That's the rule during the route or pattern run by the offensive player.
The play was already broken and he barely touched the defender and the defender wasn't in any position to make the catch when he stuck his arm out.
Remember that this rule is was made to make it fair for either player to make the play whether it be a reception or interception.

I stand on the side of it being a touchdown.

--------------------------------------
Quote:
2: the rothlisburger touchdown. if you watch the replay in slow motion, the white stripe on the ball touches the white stripe of the goal line, and that means the nose of the ball broke the plane of the endzone, and thus it was a proper call.

I looked at the play and the replays and still believe that NO PART of the ball broke the plane of the goal line. IIMB,The nose of the ball was ON the LINE .....not over it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:

3: the phantom holding call. holding can be called on every play in the game if the officials choose to do so.

During the numerous replays, I watched his hands intently only to see the normal offensive line use of the hands.
My opinion...No Holding.

Below the waist tackle

As a defensive player you may take all LEGAL means necessary to tackle a offensive player. That includes knocking down the blocker if your intent is to get to the ball handler.

Defensive players tackle
Offensive players Block

In this case the blocker and ball handler were offensive players.

The QB was the defensive player.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It seems I was the only one who mentioned the bad all on the reception/fumble by SS where end call and held the ball for at at least 2 seconds before trying to bring the ball into his waist only to lose it and the ball rolled out of bounds at the 8 yard of PS.
The zebras called it an incomplete pass. It was actually a reception & fumble as he did have control of the ball until he fumbled it.


We have lousy officating up here in Canada as well, in regards to all sports, but Football & Hockey are at the height of Lousiness.
 

Last edited by Mil1ion; Feb 8, 2006 at 02:11 PM.
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 02:09 PM
  #63  
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stu37d
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In regards to the touchdown (or, almost TD, depending on who you ask), if any part of the ball touches any part of the goal line (I'm talking about the part that is closest to the field of play), it is a TD. The giant white chalk line is part of the endzone, so as soon as the ball crosses it (or comes into contact with it)...TD! Now, let's assume for a moment that it was a half inch short- which is entirely possible. Does anyone else feel that the Steelers wouldn't have been able to send the Bus in to make those last few millimeters? It would have ended up the same, anyway... TD! But then again, I'll agree that you never know, anything can happen.

As far as the stats go, you can argue that the Seahawks had the better record, turnover ratio, etc, but if you are going to tout statistics, you need to put the Steelers in the same situation. The Steelers played teams with better records, for instance, so there turnover ratio is obviously going to reflect that...

BTW, the AFC is better than the NFC, and has been for a few years (Bucs notwithstanding). Just as the NFC made the AFC their sacrificial lamb year after year in the 90's. It's all cyclical. The NFC will bounce back.
 
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 02:15 PM
  #64  
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Mil1ion
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Sorry Stu, you're wrong about the lione being part of the wend zone.
The goal line seperates the end zone from the regular playing field.

A portion of the ball has to break the plane of the goal line to be called a touchdown.


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Football



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“About Football Glossary - Goal Line”

Glossary
From James Alder,
Your Guide to Football.


Definition: The line on each end of the field that separates the end zone from the rest of the playing field.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Goal line
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The goal line is the chalked or painted line dividing the end zone from the field of play in Canadian football and American football.

If any part of the ball reaches any part of the imaginary vertical plane transected by this line while in-bounds and in possession of a player whose team is striving toward that end of the field, this is called a touchdown and scores six points for the team whose player has advanced the ball to, or recovered the ball in, this position.

If any member of the offensive team is downed while in possession of the ball and at or behind the goal toward which the other team is striving, this is called a safety and scores two points for the defensive team.

If, during the course of play, a loose ball travels past the goal line and is recovered within the end zone, then it is a touchdown if recovered by the team striving toward that goal, or a touchback if recovered and downed by the team striving toward the goal at the opposite end of the field.
 

Last edited by Mil1ion; Feb 8, 2006 at 02:17 PM.
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 02:20 PM
  #65  
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t_dickie
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From: Brandon Mb
People are making the NFC out like its pop warner football compared to the AFC. There are several very good football teams in the NFC - including the best defense in the league. I admit, the AFC is a stronger conference right now, but its not leaps and bounds ahead of the NFC like people are insinuiating.

Trevor
 
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 02:20 PM
  #66  
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tmyers
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Originally Posted by rbohm
a few so called bad calls do not a game make, but lets look at those calls;

1: the pass interference call against the seahawks. the receiver had his arm extended, and was touching the defender, and that by rule IS pass interference. the cluncher on this though is wher the referee was, right behind the play in full view. if the official had been to one side or the other, that call would likely have not been made.
Look at the whole play. The defender clearly inititated the contact. Almost everyone in the league says that it should not of been called. The ref in this case is also from Pitsburg. Also when you review the play you will find the ref didn't even go for the flag until the pit paly started yelling.

2: the rothlisburger touchdown. if you watch the replay in slow motion, the white stripe on the ball touches the white stripe of the goal line, and that means the nose of the ball broke the plane of the endzone, and thus it was a proper call.
Rothlisburger himself has admitted to not getting in. In addition look at the refs actions prior to raising his hands. He was going to spot the ball on about the 1 yard line.

3: the phantom holding call. holding can be called on every play in the game if the officials choose to do so. but how about the holding calls that were not made that blind men watching drag racing could see?
Calling a makeup penality is the worse thing that happens in the game. Granted holding almost hapens on every play. In this case though it was a text book block.

4: the crack back block against the seahawk QB. i can see this one being rather questionable, but the rule does state that an offensive player is not allowed to hit a defensive player below the waist, so technically this call too is correct, though i agree it is also quite questionable. i doubt however that the outcome would have been any different as i think pitt would still have scored a touchdown anyway as the receiver would have had to run another 15 yards, and he was wide open when he caught the ball.
No technical about it. If a defense man had done the samething he would never get call for tackling the runner.

now lets look at a few problems the seahawks had that really did cost them the game;

1: two missed field goals. that is 6 points right there.

2: twice receivers stepped out of bounds while catching a pass, once at the 1 yard line.

4: several dropped *****.

5: extremely poor clock management.

6: the inability to stop the steelers run game when they needed to.

in the last 1:51 of the game, the seahawks got off two plays in 51 seconds, rather than 4 or 5 that they should have gotten off. had they got 4 plays off in that 51 seconds, even if two or three had been successful, they would have been alot closer. then had they kicked a field goal, since they needed two scores anyway, they would then have had a shot with an onside kick.

the point here is that the seahawks were their own worst enemy, not the officials. there have been plenty of games where my favorite teams were on the losing end, of a very poor officiated game, and while the officials played a part in their loss, the team still lost the game because they didnt execute like they should have.

stop the crying and accept the outcome as it is.
Agreed. But how much did the refs action upset the flow and ultimately the outcome of the game. This is not over and I expect much more to come out of this.

The response for the NFL headshed is unacceptable. The game is over and nothing can be done about that but changes need to be made in the future. We need professional refs that can be held accoutable. The NFL is the only pro sport that does not have them. We you have so much universal agreement on a poorly called game it times to do something. I'm not talking about us here but sports writers across the country, current and former players and couches and refs. The NFL needs to get a clue.
 
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 02:38 PM
  #67  
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Mil1ion
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Couches ?

You mean us Chesterfield quarterbacks ?

I know you meant Coaches


The reason for my posts.

I am a fan of the game Football.

Why can't I as a stringent football fan be allowed to watch a *Professional game* without interference by the referees ?

My god they even screwed up the downed football/possible fumble recovery play.


The play should have been considered a downed football.

Down (football)
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(Redirected from Football down)
Jump to: navigation, search

In American and Canadian football, a down refers to a period in which a play transpires.

Down is also an adjective to describe the condition of the player with possession of the ball after he has been tackled or is otherwise unable to advance the ball further on account of the play having ended (e.g., "He is down at the 34 yard line").

It may also refer to the ball after it is made dead in one manner or another. The line of scrimmage for the next play will be determined by the position of the ball when it is downed.

A down begins with a snap or kickoff or free kick, and ends when the ball or the player in possession of it is declared down by an official, a team scores, or the ball or player in possession of it leaves the field of play.

Each possession begins with first down. The first down line is marked 10 yards downfield from the start of this possession. If the offensive team moves the ball past the first down line, they make a new first down. If they fail to do this after a specified number of downs (four in American play and three in Canadian play), the team is said to turn the ball over on downs, and possession of the ball reverts to the opposing team at the spot where the ball was downed at the end of the last down.

When the offensive team has not yet made a first down before reaching the final down, the team faces a last down situation (third down situation in Canadian play and fourth down situation in American play), where the team is forced to decide whether to either scrimmage the ball in an attempt to pick up the first down, or alternatively to kick the ball (either by punting or making a field goal attempt). Kicking the ball is typically the safer solution, while scrimmaging may lead to a turnover on downs, potentially giving the ball over to the other team with good field position.

Downing the player with possession of the ball is one way to end a play (other ways include the player with the ball going out of bounds, an incomplete pass, or a score).
Usually a player is made down when he is tackled by the defense. If the offensive player is touching the ground with some part of his body other than his hands or feet, then he is down if any defensive player touches him.

If recovering the ball in one's opponent's end zone (following a kick-off in American football, and following any kick into the end zone, except for successful field goals, in Canadian football), a player may down the ball by dropping to one knee (note that in Canadian play, doing so scores a single for the opposing team). A player in possession of the ball will down the ball if he fumbles it out of bounds. If a quarterback is running with the ball during his initial possession of the same play following the snap, he may down the ball by voluntarily sliding from his feet to a sitting or recumbent position - this is to protect he quarterback from injury; no other play may down the ball this wa
 

Last edited by Mil1ion; Feb 8, 2006 at 02:40 PM.
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 02:38 PM
  #68  
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stu37d
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Originally Posted by Mil1ion
Sorry Stu, you're wrong about the lione being part of the wend zone.

Definition: The line on each end of the field that separates the end zone from the rest of the playing field.

If any part of the ball reaches any part of the imaginary vertical plane transected by this line while in-bounds and in possession of a player whose team is striving toward that end of the field, this is called a touchdown and scores six points for the team whose player has advanced the ball to, or recovered the ball in, this position.
This definition, itself, is ambiguous. Of course the goal line is the chalk line that divides the playing field from the endzone. I imagine an invisible wall rising up from the edge of the line (The front edge), and if the ball touches that invisible wall, it is a touchdown. Now, I didn't look it up, I admit, but when I hear the announcers (John Madden, I think) say something like, "If anypart of the ball touches the line, it's a TD," I tend to take that for fact (realizing, of course, that even the great John Madden isn't infallible).

I will agree that the refereeing was short of adequate, and that the NFL should have full time refs. But how? I mean, you have a group of guys that have to quit their normal jobs to call one game a week for the NFL? Imagine that request for a leave of absence!! (lol) Baseball umpires are employed for about 9 months (10 if they are in the playoffs), which makes their full time status more acceptible. Naybe the NFL could do some tougher testing or something???
 
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 02:49 PM
  #69  
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Mil1ion
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I guess I stand corrected if this true.

BREAKING THE PLANE

Friday, December 16, 2005 - 12:00PM

In order to count as a touchdown, does any point of the football have to break the BACK plane or just the FRONT plane of the goal line? The goal line looks to be a good three inches thick, and it could make a big difference.

Answer

The plane of the goal line is on the field of play edge of the line. Any ball in the possession of a player that touches or breaks that plane, is a touchdown.


http://www.cfl.ca/index.php?module=a...num=1&nid=5383
 
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 03:31 PM
  #70  
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TDickie, Yes, I agree that a series would be a good way to determine winners. However, that will never happen in the NFL. 16 regular season games is grueling enough. Add on a wildcard, divisional, and conference championship plus the Super Bowl and you've got 20 games alone there. If there were three game series, the teams that make the Super Bowl would play up to 25 games plus a possible 3 more in the Super Bowl. I don't think any team could stand up to that. a regular season takes enough of a toll on the body. And we'd be stretching the season well into March or April.

Yes, I agree that Philly would have been one of the better teams in the NFL if TO wasn't TO, and McNabb and Westbrook were healthy all season long.

But, I will agree to disagree with you, and lots of other people from the looks of it.
 
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 06:43 PM
  #71  
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rbohm
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From: tucson/luray usa
Originally Posted by tmyers
Look at the whole play. The defender clearly inititated the contact. Almost everyone in the league says that it should not of been called. The ref in this case is also from Pitsburg. Also when you review the play you will find the ref didn't even go for the flag until the pit paly started yelling.
actually that is wrong about the ref reaching for his flag late, he actually reached for the flag right after the foul happened, he didnt grab it the first time. and like i said about the call, if the ref was in a different location, he likely would NOT have made the call, but since it happened right in front of him, he threw the flag and made the call.



Originally Posted by tmyers
Rothlisburger himself has admitted to not getting in. In addition look at the refs actions prior to raising his hands. He was going to spot the ball on about the 1 yard line.
actually rothlisburger said he doubted he got in, not he didnt get in, there is a difference.



Originally Posted by tmyers
Calling a makeup penality is the worse thing that happens in the game. Granted holding almost hapens on every play. In this case though it was a text book block.
i agree that make up penalties are wrong, and need to stop.


Originally Posted by tmyers
Agreed. But how much did the refs action upset the flow and ultimately the outcome of the game.
the referees are part of the game. in the field of play they are just another player, to a point. if you hit the ref with a ball during a play, and the ball falls to the ground you have an incomplete pass, yes i have seen it happen. many receivers have used referees as picks to gain an advantage over a defensive player, nothing illegal about that. a few players have even run into the refs during a play, and either fell to the ground, or fumbled the ball, again part of the play.

the point here is, if an official calls a penalty, it is part of the game, and the players need to adapt, and overcome the bad fortune, and play through. is it any different than when a star player gets injured during a play, and is out of the game? in fact the answer is NO. it is no different. your team still has to regroup, and move forward.

a good example of this is when arizona went to its first final four under lute olsen. they played oklahoma, and were expected to lose the game. there were many bad calls against arizona in that game, but the biggest problem was that our three point shooter, averaging 5 threes per game made, hit like one or two the whole game. had he just hit three more threes, arizona would have won that game. cant cry over spilled milk, and that is what the seahawks and their fans are doing. crying over spilled milk.

if the NFL makes a bunch of rule changes over the off season, it will be a knee jerk reaction that will have bad consequences for the game as a whole.
 
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 07:11 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by 351Bronco
.....Yes, I agree that a series would be a good way to determine winners.....I don't think any team could stand up to that....
Operating the way they do now, I would agree. But with a 25 game season (playing a three-game series in the Superbowl only), teams would be forced to use their resources more wisely. There are 60+ guys on an NFL football team, and only 30 or so get to see the majority of the action. Just play all 60 of them. Problem solved IMO.
 
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Old Feb 8, 2006 | 08:55 PM
  #73  
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the seahawks were outcoached?!?!?! hahaha thats clearly WRONG. cowher outcoached holmgren?!?! thats like kobe outplayed jordan... ANYWAY. the refs did make some bullcrap calls..... holding when the hawks got to the 1 yard line and the holding wasnt even there!!!!!!!!! and if you ask me, offensive pass interference is the lamest call in the game. it makes no sense.
 
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Old Feb 9, 2006 | 04:20 PM
  #74  
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SeaHawks got cheated....
 
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Old Feb 10, 2006 | 02:18 AM
  #75  
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Is everybody done crying yet? If you're looking for a reason for the Seahawks loss, look no further than the Steelers defense breaking up the Seattle offense, the 2 missed field goal attempts, and the fact that Cowher way out coached Holmgren. What coach goes into the locker room at halftime, trailing in the score, with a time-out left? The same coach that blames "poor officiating" for his team making a giant sucking noise! History will read: "Super Bowl XL, Steelers 21- Seahawks 10". The fact is, the Steelers executed the important plays, and the Seahawks blew their opportunities.
 
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