Just picked up a '77 F150 Ranger with the original 460 in it showing 169K on the odometer. On the test drive, it drove really nice, smooth idle for a 29 year old truck. Owner (he was the second owner at 61K miles in 1983) said that he's done oil changes every 3K miles (10W-50 or maybe 40), and the only work to engine (about 10K miles ago) was new water pump, new timing chain, and valve stem seals. Last 5 years has only driven 2K miles per year, and it's been used on his farm and hauling some big machine parts occasionally for his work. I did hear a slight rythmic che-che-che sound and possibly a bit of an exhaust noise (has original exhaust manifolds and manifold pipes to muffler). He also said that there is a very slight oil leak at back of the engine, but engine consumes less than 1 qt. in a year. I checked the ground beneath where (he said) he parks the truck and saw no evidence of any major rear seal leaks.

Now that I've had some time to drive it and play with it, I have some questions:
- I did an oil change. But the oil that came out was very dark and very thick. Hmmm, doesn't look like 3K mile oil to me. I put in my current fav which is Mobile 1 5W-30 synthetic. Now I had the truck outside for a week when I first got it and before oil change and only had 1, maybe 2 drops of oil on the cement. All of a sudden after the oil change I'm getting 10 to 15 drops or more per day. Pulled the C6 inspection plate off and it is oil wet behind there. I've heard this could happen, but can you guys confirm that I made a mistake running 5W-30 synthetic on the well aged engine? If so, what should I run instead, 10W-40, 10/20W-50, "older engine" oil???

- Related possibly to above, but now I can hear, but not all the time a 3rd sound. It is usually on acceleration and this one a bit more "knockish" sounding, but it is not there all the time. Decreases as engine warms up, and don't hear it while cruising or decellerating. Could this guy have been running some additive?? Or am I back to too thin of oil for this engine? Sticking lifters? Worse?

- I did do cap and rotor check and clean up. Looked pretty good actually. Owner was truthful about new wires and spark plugs. I also did a vacuum check - a steady 19 inches of manifold vaccum which I believe is good? At operating temp this is one really smooth idling engine - 650 rpm and very little change - smoother than my other vehicles that I recall.

- Stong gas smell (of course didn't notice this until I parked this truck in my garage). Has a Holley 1850-C 4bbl (600cfm) on Edlebrock aluminum intake. When I took the air cleaner off, the inside of carb was all black and wet gas in the chambers. Cleaned best I could with carb cleaner and reset the idle mixture screws. Reset the (side pivot) floats level - close but a little high. The exhaust doesn't seem to smoke, but the tail pipe is very black/sooty. The idle screws were close and I reset a little more leaner but not as much as I was expecting (hoping for?). New spark plugs showed dark, almost moist coating. When going thru the tuning, black drippings blowing out the tail pipe. Gas additive time? Most likely carb rebuild time??

- che-che-che seems to come from the AC fan belt driven units. I took this first belt off and the sound appeared to stop. There's an idle pulley and a tensioner pully and the AC compressor driven on this belt. No change in the sound when I engage the AC pulley, so that points me to the 2 pulleys?

- The drivers side exhaust manifold is missing the last bolt - I think it is broken off inside the manifold. Stuck a pick in there and it goes in a little over an inch or so. Maybe they were going to put on new exhaust but stopped there after this bolt broke and so kept the orig pipes and possibly single 3 ' long round muffler. I don't see any visual exhaust blow by, but maybe source (or old pipe) of slight exhaust sound.

Thanks in advance for any help, suggestions and guidance on this beast of an engine (I use to play with 289's a number of years ago).

daggerNC

 

Well the main one I am gonna hit on is yes you shouldn't hve switched that engine to synthetic, as old as it is the seals have started to dry up a little and the synthetic oil will make them leak, happens almost everytime. I don't think switching back to regular oil will help it now your probably gonna need to replace all the seals and gaskets to get it to stop leaking, but the bright side of that is then you can just stay with the synthetic with no problems.

 

monsterbaby - thanks, as I suspected about the oil. However, I've never heard that you cannot revert back to dino lubricants and stop/reduce increased leaking? I hear the rear mains on the 460 are a 2-piece and require lowering the crank/main bearings. Can I even get the oil pan off without lifting the engine? Not part of my plans. And if were to do that, I'd be tempted to maybe replace the main bearings and the rod bearings, but that could be a waste of time if something is worn significantly requiring a rebuild.....

 

Chances are the guy was running higher weight oil to keep the leaks to a minimum. Switch back to 10w30 dino and add some STP oil treatment. With old seals that's about all you can do. Hey, it's a work truck with 169K on the clock. It's gonna drip a little.

You said the previous owner had changed the valve seals. The old worn-out seals were probably the source of the sooty exhaust. Unless it's smoking a lot or using a buttload of oil, I wouldn't worry about it.

Broken exhaust manifold bolts are common to the 460.

A rhythmic brushing sound (the 'che-che-che') from the engine compartment is inherent to v-belt drive systems. As the belts wear in the sides of the belt develop slight irregularities that rub agains the pulley grooves. You also have 30 year old accessories with 30 year old seals and 30 year old bearings. They are going to make noise. The only way to stop them from making noise is to replace them.

The carb seals may be gone. That could well be the reason for the gas smell and the wet plugs. More diagnosis is necessary.

Hey, it's an old truck. As long as it does the job and doesn't burst into flame, well... put in some heavier oil, keep the belts tight and the plugs gapped, and drive the heck out of it.

Brad

 

Are you sure that 77 f150 RANGER has a stock 460? Never heard of a motor that
big in an old Ranger, stock that is.

 

In 77 the Ranger designation was a trim level on the full size pickups rather than a seperate size like it is today. Though most 150's were bought with sixes, 302's or 351's, they could be ordered with a 460 backed up by a C6.

Brad

 

Well i know the rangers of old were'nt like the rangers of today, but i did'nt know
they stuffed a 460 into one, interesting. So if your right i learned something today.

 

Wait until someone mentions "Camper Special". Yes, Ford offered one...

Brad

 

Brad - thanks for the inputs. So I'll switch back to dino oil plus an oil additive!? So you suggest only 10w-30 + additive, or would 10w-40 work just as good or better plus an additive? I have never used additives, so I've got ask what you guys recommend (or which ones to stay away from)?

And thanks for the encouragement - started with the excitement then did some standard maintenance/tuning work thinking I'm doing good things for the truck and then I start panicing. This truck is meant to be a daily driver until my 1966 F100 Custom Cab and Camper Special (yup, even my fender badges say so) is put back together. Not one of those frame up restos, but found out needed tranny swap, and electrical and hated manual steering so now I'm doing the power disc brakes plus power steering change out, etc, etc,,,,,, You know, more things than planned and I have more pieces off and someday soon hope to actually start putting something back ON the truck

I didn't see anything bad on the oil (like metallic, etc), so that was good, just was surprised at the color/thickness. I'm afraid it's also carb rebuild time - hey how about throwing a can of fuel cleaner into the tank? Better ask before I mess something else up!

Thanks again,
daggerNC

 

Hey Dagger,

I just noticed where you are located. If you need help, let me know, I live in Holly Springs and I'm hoping to get my hands on my own 460 this spring to build up and drop into my 88 Bronco. I wouldn't mind the early shop time with a 460 before getting mine. Plus, who doesn't like turning a wrench.

 

I would just run good old 10w30 with some additive, at least in winter. In summer you might switch to a heavier weight oil if you feel like you are having leak or oil pressure issues.

Oh, that brings up a good point - get a mechanical guage for your oil pressure. As long as you are seeing decent oil pressure, having relatively few leaks, and no problems with oil consumption, I'd stick with 10w30. With that kind of mileage I would expect to see 10-15 psi at idle and 30-40 psi max.

Be careful with the fuel cleaner. Some cleaners are strong enough to dissolve older style seals (especially if they are already dried up or otherwise nastified) and can loosen debris in the tank and clog filters in no time. I would probably do the basics - replace all the rubber fuel lines and old clamps, add a see-thru inline filter, and possibly replace the fuel pump as cheap insurance. Unless the tank is rusted out, this should revitalize your fuel system and have it in good working order. I would definitely consider rebuilding the carb or even replacing it. Don't be surprised if the shaft seals are completely worn out. If they are, don't even think about rebuilding it. Get a new one. The seals can be replaced but the price to do so is prohibitive and with a little patience you can pick up a new Holley on e-bay for under $200.

Brad

 

OK, I'm getting fired up here again. Thanks to all for the encouragement and guidance. Hey smooth, will contact you when and if I do any major engine projects, or you're welcome to come over to chat. Thanks!

So, been up the last 2 nights till about midnight reading and researching some more. Most if not all of the miracle PTFE or Zinc based oil additives are worthless or even damaging (knew that anyway). However, I found one oil additive that has many, many positive end user reviews from a lot of different sites - Auto-Rx This is basically a specialized cleaner additive that appears to be very effective in removing many types of internal deposites that lead to engine performance degradations. Many people have had rear main seal (and other seals) leaks completely stop or greatly reduced. Also removes tarnishes and buildup on lifters, valves, rings, etc so lots of people posting postive results with those areas. The info on the cleaner/oil treatment is that certain types of chemical changes and contamination accumulate on the (rear main) seal which overtime causes it to harden and shrink a little thus leading to oil leaks. This product reverses that. The site also goes on to talk about the effects of synthetics on these older engines including hardening of the seals and increased oil leaks (got me labeled exactly! - doh!!). This site highly recommends (like you guys have been telling me) to only use dino oil in this engine from now on.

So, I've ordered the treatment for the recommended dual pass. I also found out a lot of people like the Rotella-T oil, and found the 15w-40 Rotella at WallyMart today. Out goes the expensive 5w-30 sythetic oil with 200 miles on it and in goes the dino tomorrow - and will add the Auto-Rx when it gets delivered (probably early next week). If it works half as good as it has for so many others I'll be very pleased. I'll post a followup thread (takes 1500 miles for the initial cleaning phase). Brad - also have some left over Amsoil fuel cleaner that I was going to try - will keep it on the light side. Will also do the carb rebuild.

Thanks!

 

Don't bother with the Auto-RX. Snake oil. Change the oil and leave it be. The Rotella has enough detergent and solvent properties to do everything that the snake oil products promise to do. Or you could leave the sythetic in for a while just for the cleansing properties unless the leaks get really bad. Would do the same thing and cost less. As for sythetics hardening the seals, well... it's marketing B.S. Sythetics are not as well absorbed by some older seals so the seals don't stay as pliable or swollen. As a result they will weep worse than old seals with dino oil. However, a switch back to dino would take care of that.

As for the fuel cleaner, maybe. At the very least it would dry up any residual moisture in the fuel system. It can't hurt, but don't expect it to help, either, at least not in a carbureted engine. I'd concentrate on tuning up the fuel system and getting the carb back in shape before I started pouring in fuel additives.

Brad

 

give the auto Rx a shot. a diesel oil is a good choice no matter what brand you choose.

 

As was stated already the exhaust bolts tend to be a problem if not fixed you'll blow out the gasket and your little noises are going to increase. Never been able to figure out why i'ts always the end bolt that's the problem


John F.