he's a great guy, smart too, but he IS a salesman. If you've ever talked to him on the phone he is really pushing product at 100 mph. And his ads always say; "BEST GAIN". So is that best gain with an untouched ECM ? Probably not, you gotta re-jet that motor to compensate for the headers right ? Right ?

I have a friend with Banks complete system (don't we all?) on a newer 454 Vortec Suburban. He was waffling between a s/c and the Banks system. He was not a happy camper after the Banks system was installed. He liked it fine, but he didn't get near what he thought he would. He doesn't tow, so to his seat of the pants dyno there was very little gains made. For this guy, a s/c would have been a better choice. But for alot of us who haul loads or tow big trailers the better breathing Banks system will add power where we need it. The long tube headers, torque-tubes Gale calls them will definitely help scavenge spent fuel from the exhaust ports. I don't care for the muffler's sound, but you may. Good luck, Ken

 

Looks to me as if Kenne Bell wants to sell blowers. Awesome power gains on every one i've witnessed (although never a v-10 yet).
I do have a problem with his ad, I've always noted total system improvements require both intake and exhaust modifications especially with a blower, is he saying his v-10 currently has that restrictive piece of #@$& Y pipe installed? Supercharged engines require exhaust mods. to operate correctly with the addition of the pressurized air.
If Kenne Bell is for example testing shortie headers through the stock Y there may be little if any gains present. His article doesn't go into any detail.
Come on guys, nothing for nothing.

Lastly, will he dyno ANY header combo out-there.... if so I'm in!

ATsX

 

Kenne Bell is ANTI-header, he says the exhaust manifolds are the best bet for s/c stock engines. Especially the V10 as it's limited to it's head design.

 

I read that years ago and it still kinda "haunts" me as I search for more power. I cannot understand how Banks can make "dyno" claims that he does and the guy down the street (Kenne Bell) can make the opposite claim.

Most curious statement in that article is that with 4.30s you need a 2-piece driveshaft. huh??

Believe me a SC would be nice but 5 grand is a lot to pay. Especially when feeding 4 kids, 3 dogs, 3 horses....ME!...

I'm fine without headers. To be honest, the Y-pipe just looks weird. I'd like to change it for no other reason than THAT!

 

ok i think i've done a lot for for my 3 valve.
but on a 2 valve the y pipe is and has been it's biggest problem. get rid of it. headers as i said 12 stinking hp all up stairs it's lost low end.the air intake kit not the hp claimed by afe thats for sure. but it sounds great and turns heads. most of my gains are from about 100 pulls on the dyno , a awfull lot of time on the computer playing with the tuning, some times it went up. then down with another. and in the trans. the trans looses a lot in the torqe reduction programing and slip.
it took a lot of tuning time , pulling the trans and replaceing clutches and disc's haveing the converter redone .furnace brazing, needle bearings. different clutch and disc material, if you want big gains it costs big time money.
yes gale banks puts out most likely the best bolt on gains you can get. a good tuner can pull out maybe 15 or 20 more in programing. but gale is a diesel man. kenny bell. yes he's a super charger man. most likly one of the best right now. again it cost big $$$$.
it's just how much do you want to or can you spend, we do not have light trucks here, they are heavy weights.

 

Kenne (Jim) Belle is a salesman, Gale Banks is a salesman aswell. I am sure that's a fair statement. I don't think Belle is anti headers on all engines, I believe he is limiting his criticism to the V10. He does say they will gain HP on the top end, but I think he's one of the more honest ones to say you also lose it on the lower side, where a truck engine can least afford it.

From what I have gathered, Gale Banks' V10 kits get most of their gains from the chip, and lesser in the hardware. And, no matter how you slice it, it's still a butt load of bucks. True, the supercharger is an expensive option as well. But I think if you work it out dollar for dollar the supercharger yields greater dividends.

I have the green light to go ahead and have an KB s/c installed on my V10 to the tune of $4,400 at a local performance shop specializing in Ford performance. But, to be honest, I am starting to get cold feet. I mean, how often do I really need it? my V10 has no problem pulling my fiver. At higher elevations/steeper grades I sure would like to have that extra boost, I will admit. But I feel more comfortable sitting on a thicker wallet, eventhough I might be going a little bit up the hill a little more slowly.

 

Pops, not to argue, but I have heard before about headers loosing low end, BUT then I hear that these engines like 3k-5k when pulling, hence the 4.30 gears for most guys. So, what rpm would be considered low in these engines? 1500-2500?

 

From my experience, replacing the Y pipe alone gave me more power and torque on the low and top end. I never had wheel hop until I replaced the Y pipe. I had to purchase the Eaton Positraction rear and the Chassis Tech Traction Bars to stop the wheel hop. I just can't justify putting in the headers for the amount of horsepower it would add to my V-10.

 

skip
i know you can tell us about the poffer thing as you have one. just how much did you gain?

 

I did not read the link pops_91710 provided, but I can guess they have found that the engineers at Ford already eeeked out a majority of the power. And that there is very little if any "hidden" power to be found buy simple bolt on headers or intakes.

Many of the various headers and cold air kits I have seen on out local dyno actually lots some low end HP and torque. They did gain fairly impressive numbers above 3600 RPM and if you need more power up top for heavy towing there are good combinations of aftermarket kits to use. Banks is the best engineered and tested system and every old phart with a V10 powered Class C motor Coach will tell you that the Camping world over night install for the big bucks was money well spent.

If you spend a majority of time on the road hauling heavy these are OK mods... but for a daily commuter and less then 25% towing rig I would save my money.

On the dyno the best gains I have seen came on elimination of the crappy "T" pipe replaced with a smoother flowing "Y" pipe or true duals with an "H" or "X" back about 36 inches from the factory manifolds.

If I still had a pre 05 exhaust system I would be looking for a junked 05/06 just to steal the exhaust from.

For the record I have not seen the complete Banks set up on a dyno and each of the 3 old Pharts I know with the system claim they do not detect any low end loss. .. I am not sure on their Class C Motor Coaches but seems to me they already have some really low rear end gearing so my 1900-2100RPM@70mph with 3.73s, or 2100-2250RPM @ 70mph with 4.30s cruise experience may be that they have 2500RPM or higher with 4.56/4.88 already and that is the reason the Banks works so well for them.

Same with the free (er) flowing filters...on the dyno with or without filter there is ZERO HP torque gain below 3600RPM. Some of the fancy expensive systems gain 5 to 12 HP above 3600 but my gut is unless you spend a LOT of time at those RPMs there is just another $200+ bill pitched out the window. Of course on this I am very biased because of where I live. We have an extremely fine powdered dust here and I change air filters very frequently. The fact that all the oil soaked gauze cotton filters pass more particles before they are loaded up is a serious concern. So at $200+ cost, and just a few extra HP, are not worth the potential longevity issues down the road. Just my 2 cents worth. If you do not live in the sandy dusty south west and only worry about pollution and pollen then a combination of intake (air filter) and exhaust mods may well be worth the 5-10% HP and torque gains.

Monsta

Brother get the supercharger and keep your mouth shut.... when was the last time she changed the oil any way?

 

Not to worry..this has been a very level-headed but interesting discussion.

You pose an interesting question. You could be in the ballpark on that low end rpm figure, maybe just a tad low. I'd have to say at 3,000 rpm's you are just getting out of the 'low-end'. )Heck, my truck doesn't even sound like it's working hard there.) But forget not Belle also includes the mid-range (3k to 5k) in his caveat. Something to consider. He does say they come to life above 5 grand. I don't go there often if ever.

I am still timid at those higher rpm's. I'll confess I am a left-over from the dinosaur era when the great tugger, the 460 cid engine, was king of the hills.

Don't get me wrong, fellas. Once I tried it, I was sold on my V10.

Now, the Y-pipe dicsussion has me really interested. I need to investigate that. The dyno shop in San Bernardino told me he has a trick or two when it comes to the exhaust pipes. He was saying something about dropping out the cat and replacing it with some other type of cat. Not sure what that was all about.

I have also heard about this water-alcohol injector systems from either Aqua-mist (British) or Snow Performance.

 

I will be able to add to this discussion after the first weekend in December...

I will be installing the whole banks powerpack with ottomind and transcommand that weekend. Paid 2170 for the whole shebang and I sure hope it’s worth all of it.

I have been doing research on the whole thing for the past couple months and if you really do read everything banks has on their website about what each component does then it does make sense to get it even the ottomind. The only thing I don’t like about it is the oiled air filter which I will not be using because of possible maf sensor problems and bad experiences with k&n.

While we are on the supercharger topic has anyone actually looked into the whipple supercharger. It just seems like a much better system then any centrifugal charger.

 

Skipperw, who is participating in this thread has a Whipple strapped on top of his V10.

But now I can see another thread being started debating which SC to go with.

==========

Fred, you may just be on to something. She NEVER changes the oil in the trucks! But she changes my "oil"...if you know what I mean. I don't want to lose my "oil change" ability so I will have to soften her up for a SC.

I've decided through this thread to stick with my original plan.

1. Gears
2. Y-pipe swap
3. SC...in the future...hopefully.

No headers for me. And PLEASE (I can be very wishy-washy sometimes) PLEASE don't try to talk me into it!







*quote from alter ego "Did you see thsoe $189 headers on ebay?? Whatchya think???

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

 

e-bay=china = rip off's? i'll keep my $500.00 set from ford. even though they are not worth it down stairs

 

Yeah but they look cool.