Hydraulic Lifters
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2005
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Hydraulic Lifters
Hey Folks,
Dopey lifter questions to follow:
My 1960 223 I6 is tapping away at me and adjusting the lifters is on the list. I found a couple of good posts here to brush up on adjustment technique (been a while; had a VW back in the '70's that required frequent work). My questions are:
- Is it possible to install hydraulic lifters on this thing? Advisable?
- Does the cam need to change if I go to hydraulics?
- Does the block need any work to provide adequate lifter oil supply?
- Anything else I'm missing?
Thanks.
John Boyd
Dopey lifter questions to follow:
My 1960 223 I6 is tapping away at me and adjusting the lifters is on the list. I found a couple of good posts here to brush up on adjustment technique (been a while; had a VW back in the '70's that required frequent work). My questions are:
- Is it possible to install hydraulic lifters on this thing? Advisable?
- Does the cam need to change if I go to hydraulics?
- Does the block need any work to provide adequate lifter oil supply?
- Anything else I'm missing?
Thanks.
John Boyd
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 111
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From: Klamath Falls
I can only answer question 3 for sure. Cam and lifters are always changed as a set. As to adjusting the rocker arm clearance; sometimes you need to have the rockers surfaced if they have developed a groove or ridge around the contact area. When that happens, you can't get a true adjustment.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
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From: Near Fresno, California
sevenL4, sorry to contact you like this, but you have both the email and private message features for FTE users turned off. Please visit http://www.frappr.com/ftenorthernchaptermembers
It is an interactive map showing the FTE members who live in Northern California. Please add yourself if you wish. The NorCal chapter of FTE is not very active, but I am trying to find FTE members who actually work on their trucks. It is fun to meet and compare notes - maybe at a truck show or at an old car swap meet.
Email me if you have any questions.
Clint
It is an interactive map showing the FTE members who live in Northern California. Please add yourself if you wish. The NorCal chapter of FTE is not very active, but I am trying to find FTE members who actually work on their trucks. It is fun to meet and compare notes - maybe at a truck show or at an old car swap meet.
Email me if you have any questions.
Clint
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2005
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Walston,
Started doing some internet seaching. Called Crane Cams and the guy said crane didn't offer anything for the 223. He suggested a look at Speedway Motors (Lincoln, NE), Offenhauser, Hemmings Motor News, Crower, Comp Cams and Edelbrock.
The Comp Cams folks have a hydraulic cam, lifters, timing chain/gear and valve spring & seals kit for $283; he said the cams got 0.440 lift with 212 deg. duration that would work well in the 223 from off-idle to 5,000 rpm (not sure I have the cajones to push this unknown motor that high). They don't sell any roller rockers, but suggested Ford Motorsports may offer something (the dreaded dealer, although last week I picked up a replacement gas tank sending unit float for $5.50 and nearly had the big one. I didn't think they'd even look up a part for less than $20 (nyuk, nyuk)).
The search continues.
Started doing some internet seaching. Called Crane Cams and the guy said crane didn't offer anything for the 223. He suggested a look at Speedway Motors (Lincoln, NE), Offenhauser, Hemmings Motor News, Crower, Comp Cams and Edelbrock.
The Comp Cams folks have a hydraulic cam, lifters, timing chain/gear and valve spring & seals kit for $283; he said the cams got 0.440 lift with 212 deg. duration that would work well in the 223 from off-idle to 5,000 rpm (not sure I have the cajones to push this unknown motor that high). They don't sell any roller rockers, but suggested Ford Motorsports may offer something (the dreaded dealer, although last week I picked up a replacement gas tank sending unit float for $5.50 and nearly had the big one. I didn't think they'd even look up a part for less than $20 (nyuk, nyuk)).
The search continues.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
Likes: 1
From: Near Fresno, California
Originally Posted by John Boyd
The Comp Cams folks have a hydraulic cam, lifters, timing chain/gear and valve spring & seals kit for $283; . . .
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 282
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From: Winchester
John,I just did a search at the comp cams sight.I came up empty handed for a 223.Do you think maybe they misunderstood you?Like already ask,what is the part numbers?Thanks,Carl
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Junior User
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Carl,
The number Comp Cams gave me is K-65-236-4. Don't know if this matches anything on their site.
John
The number Comp Cams gave me is K-65-236-4. Don't know if this matches anything on their site.
John
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Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Shasta Lake, Ca.
I did a mojor rebuilding and modding of my 223 and after 7 months of searching there are no hydraulic lifters for it at all.. there are zero lash rockers for it but there rare and hard to find..
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,291
Likes: 1,055
From: NM
I looked at Summit and that part no. is good, but it doesn't appear to be for a 223. They list a bunch of cams for a '62 - '63 221 c.i. which is the original 289 block, used for a very short time. I wonder if that is what he looked up?
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Junior User
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If you go to the compcams.com site and click on product search, type in 65-236-4, you get a page for four setups for “Ford 144-250 6Cyl High Energy 260H Cam”. The number alone is just for the cam, the CL65-236-4 is for cam and lifters, the SK65-236-4 is for the “small kit” with cam, lifters, crank & cam gears and chain, and the K65-236-4 looks to be the full kit with valve seals, springs, and retainers added to the small kit parts. The guy on the phone said I could get the full kit K65-236-4 from him directly for $283 instead of the $333.58 that’s listed online.
Price doesn’t seem too bad, but the real question, after what folks are saying here, is will these parts fit the 1960 223?
Price doesn’t seem too bad, but the real question, after what folks are saying here, is will these parts fit the 1960 223?
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
Likes: 1
From: Near Fresno, California
I don't think so - this sounds like the 144/170/200/250 OHV six engine family used in the early Falcons and other small Fords. I think the 250 six was used in the 65 Mustang.
according to http://www.geocities.com/edwins63/I6ID.html the intake is cast into the head on these engines.
Sorry, it was a good idea but I don't think it will work on the 223 truck engine.
according to http://www.geocities.com/edwins63/I6ID.html the intake is cast into the head on these engines.
Sorry, it was a good idea but I don't think it will work on the 223 truck engine.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,291
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From: NM
Yeh, the small sixes are completely different, the worst thing about them is the integral "log" intake manifold. The 250's came out in the 70's when smog equipment started sapping power. They are nice engines except for the manifold. My dad's '64 Comet burned the #1 and #6 exhaust valves clean in half from running lean out at the ends of the log. If they had had detachable manifolds, so you could put on dual carbs, they would have made the 6-cylinder Mustangs really sharp running cars.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
Likes: 1
From: Near Fresno, California
Ax, I sure wish you lived closer. I have not adjusted a valve in 30 + years. All I really remember is an oily mess on the driveway, and a dirty job that needed doing everytime you did a tune-up. I still have a set of feeler gauges bent at about a 45 degree angle so you could slip them in without burning your knuckels.