Fram filter
Tuned
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
budman, I guess you read my post before I edited it... I'm grateful to anyone who posts links in an effort to share info... truly, thanks.
Here's a link to "Bob is the Oil Guy's" air filter forum, which you might find interesting... do a search there for air filter tests, and you'll have some interesting reading:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...ubb=forum;f=15
Here's a link to "Bob is the Oil Guy's" air filter forum, which you might find interesting... do a search there for air filter tests, and you'll have some interesting reading:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...ubb=forum;f=15
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1
I posted this link awhile back. Might be of value in this thread. It is on a Duramax engine.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
I'm not sure this isn't aimed at the "cleanable" type filters. I have found that those types allow far too dirt in the the engine and it appears in analysis. It also shows the GM filter excelling whereas the others are not doing so well. Make sure to look not at the graphs but at the numbers. The graphs are very biased- the numbers probably not.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
I'm not sure this isn't aimed at the "cleanable" type filters. I have found that those types allow far too dirt in the the engine and it appears in analysis. It also shows the GM filter excelling whereas the others are not doing so well. Make sure to look not at the graphs but at the numbers. The graphs are very biased- the numbers probably not.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 298
Likes: 3
I have always thought that good paper filters do better than reuseable less restrictive filters.
Same goes for oil bath filters.
Several posters in the old truck forums would disagree but it only makes sense that the less restrictive it is the more dirt will pass through it.
All this assumes that the filter doesn't fall apart.
Same goes for oil bath filters.
Several posters in the old truck forums would disagree but it only makes sense that the less restrictive it is the more dirt will pass through it.
All this assumes that the filter doesn't fall apart.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
As much as I hate to discredit a chart that shows Fram being junk...
Napa Gold and Wix oil filters are the exact same filter. Note their separation on the chart. This proves that chart is not correct.
Napa Gold and Wix oil filters are the exact same filter. Note their separation on the chart. This proves that chart is not correct.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 298
Likes: 3
Keep in mind that Wix only makes Napa, to somebodys specs.
I always wonder when some parts guy says our brand is made by so and so, to whos specs it's made.
I had a brother in law who worked for Purolater several years back. They made dozens of filter brands from K-Mart to their own brand to ones made for the Military, do you suppose they were all the same?
What I realy wonder about Fram is why the Fram, Fram double, triple and extra, etc. Why just not make one good one? Seems the others do?
Marketing, marketing......
I always wonder when some parts guy says our brand is made by so and so, to whos specs it's made.
I had a brother in law who worked for Purolater several years back. They made dozens of filter brands from K-Mart to their own brand to ones made for the Military, do you suppose they were all the same?
What I realy wonder about Fram is why the Fram, Fram double, triple and extra, etc. Why just not make one good one? Seems the others do?
Marketing, marketing......
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
No... it's the same filter.
See here, the often quoted oil filter study that every member in this forum that has been around a while has already seen:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...udy.html#n1515
Then scroll down and compare the specs to the Wix.
This guy cut apart a lot of filters and measured them, compared the paper quality, pleat number, etc.
See here, the often quoted oil filter study that every member in this forum that has been around a while has already seen:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...udy.html#n1515
Then scroll down and compare the specs to the Wix.
This guy cut apart a lot of filters and measured them, compared the paper quality, pleat number, etc.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 3
From: In the woods of Oregon
Fram sounds awfully close to the word sham. Go figure. And the debate rages on.
P.S. don't ya hate posts that add nothing to the topic
P.S. don't ya hate posts that add nothing to the topic
Last edited by kopfenjager; Nov 13, 2005 at 11:42 PM. Reason: typos
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 298
Likes: 3
P.S. don't ya hate posts that add nothing to the topic
Yes... It's the same site I quoted that put Fram on the bad list.
No....It made me look and see the facts on the Napa/Wix debate.
Looks like the Napa has less pleats ( Napa 59 vs Wix 61 ) which equals less filter surface ( Napa 337 sq in vs Wix 349 sq in )which of course equals less ability to trap dirt. Even if (we don't know) the paper is the same quality this means that it would plug up in less time which leads to the bypass opening and your oil going around the filter.
Ok it's only aprox 3.5% less filter for the money (or your engine life), then again without a true lab test we don't know what quality the paper is.
This goes to show that as I said before, just because some company makes something (or puts their name on the box) doesn't mean that the off brand product is the same as the name brand one. (AC Delco's new line comes to mind, they seem to be selling cheap parts that are contract manufactured by others and marketing them as quality AC parts).
Then again all this really means nothing because these manufacturing "deals" tend to be on 1-2 year contracts and all the sepcs can change at any time to either cut the cost so it can be sold cheaper, or cut the cost to net more profit.........
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 6
From: Northern California
Originally Posted by Big O Dave
Ed, you're either a Denver Broncos fan, or a Syracuse Orangemen fan... which is it? 
Dave, neither, actually. I grew up in Youngstown, OH which is about halfway between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. My favorite football teams are the Cleveland BROWNS, Ohio State Buckeyes, and Youngstown State Penguins. I do remember Denver's "orange crush" defense, from the mid 70s era. Randy Gradishar, Craig Morton was their QB. This was right around '77, I beleive, and their first trip to the Super Bowl. The two AFC Championship games in the late 80s, between Denver and Cleveland, we won't go there. Memories are still fresh in my mind, including Elway's 98 yard drive in Cleveland. I was in a foul mood for days after those two losses!!!!
ED 
to the Denver Broncos!!!! haha 
Ed
Laughing Gas
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 1
From: Scenic Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Flash
I'm not sure that this is not a design flaw because as the pressure from a dirty filter will build on the ring causing it to possibly come loose.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Well, BigODave did an oil filter study at the top of this forum. Note the number of pleats on the current Napa/Wix filter (he tested a Napa). 63 Pleats. Could it be they change their design every so often? The tester I linked picked up two different age filters? The design and internal components are exactly the same. Napa filter says Wix on the box. Looks like a duck, smells like a duck, good enough for me.