What Mini?

 

My brother-in-law sells chevys, which was hard for my family to accept, and I recently got to test-out the new Impala SS that he bought my sister a couple weeks ago, and it isnt as bad as everybody makes it out to be as the fwd format. As he says "the new SS is to appeal more to the midwestern, and north-eastern markets which are more inclined to need fwd rather than rwd for a better year-round driving ability." But, that is just a dealer talkin, I think its got good get-up n go, but should've been made a rwd format.

 

and I recently got to test-out the new Impala SS that he bought my sister a couple weeks ago, and it isnt as bad as everybody makes it out to be as the fwd format.

Let's not forget what the Impalas target market is- gunsights trained at the Camry, Accord, and 500.

 

And lets pick out all of those cars that have a V8 option.
Hmmm....

 

Now if GM would just build enough of them, we could really run with it. We've got a few home-runs on the bowtie side- the Impala, the Cobalt, the Corvette, the Equinox, and the HHR. But our hands are currently tied with availability problems.

 

See, the HHR is a noble effort by chevy. It's a 4cyl FWD economy.........truck? Car maybe. But the important thing is that it actually has some character, and doesent look like the run of the mill econobox. In fact, in a few years when the prices come down on those(they aren't that expensive to start with) I would seriously consider getting one of those. A little more masculine than the PT cruiser, and lots of utility for your dollar. Beats a minivan hands down if you ask me.

 

My Dad's VW bug was the second best snow vehicle in the family back in the 60s. My Corvair coupe with studded snow tires was far better. It had much better power with all the advantages of the bug and the snow got very deep, the smooth floorpan would slide along the snow with the front wheels guiding and the rear wheels pulling even though they didn't reach the ground. It worked great unless you had to stop in the deep snow. Then you were really stuck.

 

Put some skiis on the front instead of tires, and some of those paddleboat looking sand tires on the back............hmmm. That would be a fun project and a killer snowmobile!

 

[QUOTE=ARMORER]I'm sorry that you had 2 cavaliers. We had a Plymouth Horizon with studded snow tires that was nearly unstoppable. Ugly, but unstoppable.

I think just about everyone here can agree that it basically comes down to personal preference and that in some situations FWD has advantages and vice versa.

Hands down the best car I've driven in snow is my wife's Subaru. With their symmetrical AWD you have equal length half-shafts (thus no torque steer), plenty of power, around 30 mpg, and a very solidly built, comfortable car. Not a bad combo. I like the styling too.

 

I always wondered if the unequal length shafts were the culprit for torque steer. My brother and I were debating that recently. Why would that make a difference? Yeah the Omni/Horizon twins were not much to look at. But I still maintain that they were good cars. Mine got awesome mileage, had a little bit of zip, definitely not dangerously slow like other cars I've owned. And they had useful room with 4 doors and a hatch. Sometimes I actually miss that little car! It never once failed me, and I used to drive it all over. Like from Iowa to Colorado, virginia once, A few trips to Chicago, and it seemed like the thing was running on batteries instead of fuel.

 

As I understand it the main cause of torque steer in FWD cars are unequal half-shaft length. On many of them the short shaft is solid bar, the longer one is tubular. I think when you get into the throttle the tubular shaft flexes a little more so you get uneven power distribution to the front wheels. I had a VW GTI that would just about put you in another lane if you didn't plan on the torque steer on "hard starts". I remember several people with 4 cyl. Mustangs who thought they really had something until they met the GTI.

Gotta agree with you on the Omni/Horizon bit. Damn good cars. We drove ours into the ground. Towards the end compression was so low it would hardly hold itself on a hill with the engine off and in gear. Still got good mileage!

I don't really miss the Horizon but I do miss the GTI sometimes...

 

Torque steer isn't a shaft issue, it's a basic physics principle. When you rotationally accelerate something, there is a force created along the axis of rotation. The direction of said force is figured using the Right-Hand Rule. If you hold your right hand flat with the palm down, thumb out and curl your fingers, (your fingers are moving in the direction of the acceleration of the drive wheels). Your thumb is left pointing in the direction of the force, so the car would move the opposite direction--the front end is pushed to the right. This is really only noticeable in a loss-of-traction scenario, because if you still have traction, the friction of the tire on the ground keeps the front end from moving sideways. Most aware drivers would feel the shift to the right and immediately correctly by whipping the wheel to the left.

There is also "torque steer" in RWD vehicles. Take an unloaded pickup onto a perfectly flat, icy surface, with the steering straight and punch the gas to spin the tires. The rear will kick to the right.

I've driven plenty of FWD and RWD in the snow and ice. I'd take AWD or 4WD over either any day, but definitely FWD over RWD. If you've ever been driving on mostly dry roads at 60 mph and then hit an ice patch, you'd know why--your rear end kicks out and it's difficult to bring back into control (happened to me in my truck last winter). In a FWD, you may slide to the side slightly, but all you have to do is let off the gas a little and steer a little, and you'll be back in total control once you're back on dry pavement.

The 2 best vehicles I had in snow or on ice were small, FWD 4-banger stickshifts. One was an '87 Mercury Lynx 3-dr hatchback, the other was a '93 Eagle Summit sedan. The light cars like those are much easier to get stopped (less momentum).

Jason

 

Actually, it is related to the length of the shafts. More torque gets transmitted through a short shaft than a longer one- and in less time. Makes for an interesting physics experiment.

 

However having equal length half shafts does not solve the torque steer problem, It is merely ONE part of it. There are a lot of other things that need to be set up
-ackerman
-King pin angles
-Toe etc. etc. etc.

And you can get around torque steer with unequal length half shafts - you just have to know how to set up a car, taking into account the variation between the two front wheels.

 

all i know is my car is FWD and it rocks in the snow. everyone knows there is a crown in the middle of the road also that has to be accounted for. so on ice, you will always be fighting a little bit of gravity to stay on the road.