I think earthworm is referring to the Japanese fishing boat / our sub incident and the recent spy plane / China fighter incident. Not that China and Japan have a problem with each other.

I would also like to add this. What would we do if the situation was reversed? The same thing the Chinese are. I'm no commie lover but think about it.

A Chinese plane lands in Hawaii on our military base.
1. Find out why. Bomb on board? Nuke? Tear the dang thing down to the wheels to get an answer. Start political dodging.
2. Find out why the pilot landed. Is he armed with a bomb? Is he defecting?
3. Keep tearing the plane apart, checking everything. Hey, we get military secrets at the same time. Oopps sorry, just protecting our base.
4. Seperate the crew. If one is going to defect, it's more likely they will do it without peer pressure
5. More plane stripping, more political dodging
6. Get a military doctor to check the crew. If all are fine, start letting same rank crew in rooms together (harder to build chain of command that way). Bug room & see if they say anything. More plane stripping, pour on the politics.
6. Put plane back together, return crew, look like hero.

If it sounds far fetched, remember back in the cold war (about 1986) when a Russian MIG did what I described. Yep, it happened.
Walter

 

Earthwroms, do you have any clue how many times people have laughed at me when I have brought up the idea of China fighting(and beating) the U.S. army? In my own opinion Russia is abesolutley not fit to be a world power, but they want to boss people around with the threat of launching nuclear bombs at every part of their country. If we stop funding Russia's nuclear bombs, then what will they do? They will have abesolutley no military at all. If I remeber correctly a nuclear bomb has a very small "blast radius" when compared to the size of the U.S., so it would take hundreds of bombs to do much damage, but after Russia launchers all their nuclear bombs I'd be willing to bet the instant other countries found out about russia launching all their bombs they would have tanks waiting to invade. In other words if you a cop on a drug bust and you have one bullet in your gun(and no back-up), you are dead where you stand.

Another question for the room, why exactly did Clintoln attack Sadam Hussien? While, I kinda think it was to draw attention away from the "rented rooms", Monica Lewinski, and all his other mistakes. Seriously I think Clinton's attack on Iraq was stupidity, just trying to show off all his power. In the current condition, the U.S. was probbably being laughed at by all the leaders of other countries in the world because we will spend lots of our money to help any country and without that other country showing any appreciation. To put things in plain simple terms, America should take an example from otehr countries, just sit back and defend our-self when something goes bad(no funding other countires mistakes).

Logan

 

This china beating us has me troubled. Granted the chinese have increased their military power and ability. However, they are a divided nation. Their people are not all of the same mindset (Tenamon square). Their own gov is split on this issue of returning our plan and crew.

With that said, I realize that our military was clinton's whipping boy and needs help right now inorder to rebuild. I believe that Bush will do that. Unfortunatly, it's going to take time. History has shown that almost every major conflict that the USA has entered, we were ill-prepared for it. WW II comes to mind. Desert Storm was the exception. However, I think the US would still win in a fight. No, it wouldn't be pretty and a lot of people would die. It would probably devastate both countries. The one factor that would insure the chinese winning though is ourselves. By that I mean our nation is also divided. So many people don't seem to care what goes on around them. They only seem to be concerned about themselves. It makes me wonder if some of us have lost the ability to fight for freedom.

Our military might be down a few notches but we are still a superpower. A little shaky and beat up, but still top dog.

98 F250LD 4X4

 

I usually dont get into these threads BUT... That Chinese pilot got just what he deserved.... I feel really sorry for his wife and kids....Trully!! By the news accounts comming out now, he was filmed geting closer and closer to our planes since last december. The fishing boat/sub incident (japanese) may be our problem, but now the chinese have theres to deal with. There pilot had no disregard for the life and safety of another pilot and crew. If it wern`t for the plane being from the US you would never see the pilot and crew again. Our plane was in the air doing what ANY world country can do at any time in open waters.

Try E-Mailing the chinese people with our version and see if they can get it, Go Figure...

__JOHN__Õ¿ö
FTE Club #7
Member-
http://www.cruisin-north.com/
Santa Rosa, Calif.
72 F-250
ICQ#6030753
http://www.ford-trucks.net/users/jbhf250/
https://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1972_f250_2.html

 

Looks to me like the thing to do would have been to ditch the plane if it was so full of sensitve equipment. If there were chutes for everyone they should have been able to set the plane to destruct on the way down, bail out and take their chances. That probably sounds cold an callous, but a lot of people have given their lives for this country and IF that plane and it's cargo were that top secret so be it. That's why I think maybe this isn't as catastrophic as the govt. and the media make us think it is. As with moon landings, grassy knolls, 18 minute gaps in tapes, and stains on dresses, we'll probably never know "the rest of the story".
Aloha,
Meze

 

This point keeps coming up. However it appears (so far) that our plane tried to exit the area and go home. The 2nd F8 blocked it and may have fired warning shots at it not to leave.

Now then, we are faced with the option of the crew bailing out and possibly dying, then our plane crashing close to china. With china then able to recover it. I think that it is starting to look like china planned for this. And excuted a pretty smart plan.

Let's see, you are in a 4 engine turboprop that has just collided with a kamikazee chinese jet pilot. The plane drops 8000 feet in a few minutes, what our your options? First clean out your drawers and try and go home.

Basically, THEIR plane forced ours to land on their soil.

98 F250LD 4X4

 

Ok, So I went to the english version of www.china.com >> http://english.china.com/cdc/en/ <<
then to the link for the FULL Story.... read there view (it took three tries for it to come up)


__JOHN__Õ¿ö
FTE Club #7
Member-
http://www.cruisin-north.com/
Santa Rosa, Calif.
72 F-250
ICQ#6030753
http://www.ford-trucks.net/users/jbhf250/
https://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1972_f250_2.html

 

WoW! Well if I wasent pissed off before at China, I am now! I believe we should not apologize and we are not the ones responsible for the accident! As far as I know they did not violate flight rules.

Get this! Chinese Defense Minister Chi Haotian said human life is the most important thing in the world, and the Chinese government is very concerned about the missing pilot, and will continue to search for and rescue him. Correct me if I am wrong folks but isn't China the country that kills it's baby girls because they simply are not male?? Innocent little girls!!! Isn't China the county with all these violations with human rights? Didn't China give up a lot of their men in the past wars simply because they have a surplus of men? How does this man say these things? As far as I am concerned, China could care less about it's people. He and all of China is laughing at us!

I feel for the pilots wife. She is innocent and I am sure the loss of her husband is unendurable. I believe her tears are real, but she has been fed misleading information by her goverment. She believes what they tell her. It's sad that she lost her husband, but ultimately her husband committed suicide.

This situation is getting out of hand.

Jake

 

>The 2nd F8
>blocked it and may have
>fired warning shots at it
>not to leave.

Sorry, I cannot see a pilot who just watched this 4 engine prop plane destroy 1 fighter try to block it by getting in it's way. Also, if a shot was fired, the US crew would have stated so in their radio message. They aimed at the nearest airfield, a practice with international flights in an emergency.

>Now then, we are faced with
>the option of the crew
>bailing out and possibly dying,
>then our plane crashing close
>to china. With china then
>able to recover it. I
>think that it is starting
>to look like china planned
>for this. And excuted a
>pretty smart plan.

They might have known that they could get the plane down. I really don't think they wanted to jump.

>Let's see, you are in a
>4 engine turboprop that has
>just collided with a kamikazee
>chinese jet pilot. The plane
>drops 8000 feet in a
>few minutes, what our your
>options? First clean out your
>drawers and try and go
>home.

Gather your wits & get to the ground as fast & safe as you can. The US pilots were in charge of 21 other lives, don't forget.

>Basically, THEIR plane forced ours to
>land on their soil.

... Helped our plane find the first available landing strip.

Again, I'm no commie lover, but lets gather the facts we know are there. Two planes hit. A big, slow 4 prop vs a MACH capable hot ******* fighter jet (this very same pilot held up his e-mail address for the other plane to see at one time). Prop job 1, fighter 0. Now the prop is damaged, it sends out a mayday. The other fighter shows it the way to the first available runway. Then the politics get in the way.

Walter

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-Apr-01 AT 08:26&nbsp;PM (EST)[/font][p]The other F8 "showed the way to the nearest airport". You have got to be kidding. Based on your posting it appears that you think we did ram the first F8. The odds of that are pretty slim. Sorta like putting a yugo in a very big parking lot and telling it to ram a 5.0 GT.

The Orion is a 4 engine turboprop and very tough - if it was flying (which it was) it more than likely could have made it to a safe airport. I do not buy the notion that the F8 pilot was just being a nice guy. Yes, our pilot was responsible for the other crewmembers - all the more reason to try and limp home.

They pulled the plane out of a very steep descent. No doubt they were rattled but they also would known how important the hardware on the plane was. The last thing they would have wanted was to land in china. I find flaws with your explanation.

98 F250LD 4X4

 

OK, for those who think China would win a war against the US?
What type of war?
Where would it be fought?
It is currrently believed that China has only 30 to 40 ICBM capable missiles. Their accuracy would be something akin to aiming at Cleveland and hitting within 80 miles.
Would it be an invasion by the massive Chinese army?
If so how would they get here. The Chinese have a "brown water" navy (close to their own shore) and no "blue water" capability. They could come on cargo ships you say??? Our submarines are far and above superior to the Chinese navy's. Our satallites give us the ability to watch troop movement. What about air support??? Would they "island hop" to the US? Exactly how many carriers do the Chinese have? (I will award my special "you are the man" award to anyone who can answer this question. (by the way you have more fingers than they do carriers) Why else do you think that the CHICOMS are so worried about us selling 4 "Ayotollah" class Destroyers to Taiwan. China can't even muster up a navy to invade their own province Taiwan.

Now if you are talking about us invading China,
number one we wouldn't and
number two we couldn't

Anyone interested in learning about our true world readiness please refer to the following pages.
www.strategypage.com
and
www.usdefense.com
of course if you have too much money you could subscribe to
all of
www.janes.com reports.

I will agree that the US military is weaker because of the previous adminstration but to say we are not a Super Power is ridiculous.

As far a Russia, they are dangerous only as a Rogue nation threat, the Russian Air force is now limited to 10 hours of flight time PER YEAR to give you an idea, Canda also made some cuts.....
from 2200 to 2160 hours per year.

Russia has also developed a problem they haven't faced for years, they have to go through their former satellite countries to get anywhere. And thus NATO would have advance warning of any conventional warfare thus planned.

Keep in mind than China feels that they really own Siberia and any alliance between Russia and China is very unlikely.

Just my opinion but I would say, check it out for yourself.

I believe China is our enemy and a threat but not to US soil, only US economy by flaring a hot spot in the Pacific.




Ohio Bob
First a servant of Christ
Second A Husband/Father
Third A FORD fanatic
===========================
Hey third ain't bad!

 

>The other F8 "showed the way
>to the nearest airport".
>You have got to be
>kidding.
The gut is military, not a politician. That is who is holding these Americans, not the military.

>Based on your
>posting it appears that you
>think we did ram the
>first F8. The odds
>of that are pretty slim.
>Sorta like putting a yugo
>in a very big parking
>lot and telling it to
>ram a 5.0 GT.
I agree with you 100 percent. It was most likely the F8's fault. But I was not there & we do not have the US side of it yet, so I choose to label no blame. But it's more like telling a tractor trailer doing 90 to weave in & out of traffic without hitting anything.

>The Orion is a 4 engine
>turboprop and very tough -
>if it was flying (which
>it was) it more than
>likely could have made it
>to a safe airport.
An airplane with 2 damaged engines. Even the mighty B-17's of WW2 could barely make it back on 2. I often wondered why they did not head for Vietnam, but then again maybe this was the closest airstrip they knew about.

>I do not buy the
>notion that the F8 pilot
>was just being a nice
>guy. Yes, our pilot was
>responsible for the other crewmembers
>- all the more reason
>to try and limp home.
A plane that dropped 8,000 feet on impact. If it were me, I would get the thing out of the air as fast as possible. I do not know why they choose to go to a country they were knowingly spying on. Again, maybe they were just thinking of getting to the ground. The other F8 pilot went home. I would imagine he is aiming at a airstrip.

>They pulled the plane out of
>a very steep descent. No
>doubt they were rattled but
>they also would known how
>important the hardware on the
>plane was. The last
>thing they would have wanted
>was to land in china.
Last thing they probably wanted to do was die. Any port in a storm, you know. Besides, they followed protocal & smashed most of the sensitive items. Pentagon confirmed this.

 

When will you people quit buying stuff "Made in China"? They
dump 100 billion dollars of their products in the USA and only
buy 16 billion from the USA. Stop buying junk Chinese hand tools, vises, etc and take a look at more then the price when you buy something. I purchased my last Chinese product last year. Since then, I look at the bigger picture and find "Made in USA" on products. Clinton got bought off to allow them to become a favorite nation trade partner. He is a traitor who sold them our military secrets for his own personal gain.

 

I just want to expand a pont made by Ohio Bob. Even if china found a way to invade the us. It would be stupid. How many of you own guns (rifles) and know how to shoot them? How many people of main land china own guns? Granted we could never take them down, but they couldn't take us either. The second ammendment was there for a purpose.

Daywalker

 

I think that we are all missing the big point. we have the bombs so forget china. i say we go in and take our plane and pilots back. god i would join so fast if i could go over there and take out a few commies. i hate them i say we go over there and take them out why we have an exscuse. god bless bush and fords

-Jacksland