interesting aspect no one has commented on... I drive through down town baltimore and one intersection in particular has a very, very picky camera. Actually seems like a money maker more then safety...anyways... Been photographed three times now and nothing ever came of it. Of course, i usually only leave it down on my long trips for mpg purposes and I have heard that it is illegal, but I have never, ever been stopped for it.

 

I have every confidence in the guy behind me - my truck weighs about 7000#
without a load, and a rice burner what, about 1800 to 2500? He'll stop!

 

Yeah confidence. You must not drive much. NEVER put complete faith in what the other guy is going to do. Just ask anyone who rides a motorcycle, confidence is for people wanting to spend some time in a morgue.

Both rear end accidents I had this year were me minding my own business and getting hit by some one who was either out of control or not paying attention. I was fully and legally stopped in both instances, confidence had nothing to do with either accident. One accident I even knew was going to happen because I saw the lady behind me almost hit me at two previous lights, maybe that is what I mean by confidence in the other driver. I was following someone and did not want to loose track of them so I foolishly did not take my usual tactic of getting the heck away from that lady. This wasn't even a red light camera "slam on the brakes" problem, just inattention from the driver behind me. The other two times she almost hit me, I DID move ahead into the crosswalk to give her that extra 6 feet to stop, she needed every inch. I wonder if a redlight camera would have got me for that. I bet a thinking traffic officer would have ignored me and done a breathalyzer test on the lady.

I also prevented a major injury to myself years back by deciding to go into an intersection when I looked in my rear view mirror and saw some a putz who quite clearly had no plans to stop at the red light that I was stopped at for several seconds. I was on a motorcycle so I figured it was in my best interests to break the law and scoot over the limit line even on a red. Worst injury I got that day was breathing alot of tire smoke from when the idiot did finally see me.

BTW experienced bikers usually leave it in gear and are ready at a moment's notice to rip thru the intersection when they see a car not stopping. I doubt they have the intent to break the law in mind, just saving their butts. The ones who have confidence in their fellow drivers usually wake up in an ambulance(if they are lucky) and ask "What happened?"

I do not enter intersections on red lights unless absoltuely necessary, maybe a half dozen times in over 30 years of driving. I do occasionally do so by inattention on my part, all too frequent but not intentional. I do not run red lights and try to stop at yellows, but ONLY if absolutely sure it is safe to stop or go. Being legally right is no comfort if you get hurt.

I am just saying that to slam on the brakes just because a light turned YELLOW, not red is not usually the wisest course of action UNLESS you are paying attention to what is behind you. The NHTSA statistics will back that up.

I never have confidence in the person behind me paying attention. It has saved my life at least once and prevented more than a few good fender benders.

Accidents are usually caused by some person doing something unexpected. The safe and responsible driver must always be prepared and have the confidence that the other drivers WILL occasionally do something stupid.

Oh well, I guess I would rather get a ticket than a body cast or nice comfy casket, even if I was in the right. To each his own.

Jim Henderson

 

Well logic says be safe and never blow through a yellow, but in this town -- yeesh you just have to sometimes.

Example: This morning on my way to work I turned through a yellow arrow. I made it through fine and watched it turn red in the rear view. I then counted 6, that's right SIX cars behind me go through with it red.

I'm not defending it, but alot of it is the driving culture and conditions where you live. Lexington, KY is VERY VERY VERY overcrowded especially downtown and near campus. It's a city built for 75,000 that has 150,000 people driving in it.
All stoplights in the city sit at a 4-way red for 5 seconds or more just to let the idiots blow through. The lights are agonizingly slow and you generally sit 10 mins or more at each red, which is why people run them in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is that even though it's stupid and dangerous, people feel it's necessary here due to the amount of time involved in a daily commute (I drive 4 miles to work and it takes an average of 30 minutes.) Blame it on the lights or the city or the way overcrowded streets or just poeple being idiots but I don't forsee it changing anytime soon.

 

This is how the ones I have seen work...


There are magnetic loops in the road, just like the ones that trigger the lights. The can detect when you pass, and the speed you pass. If you are going to fast to stop, and the light is red, the cameras start then. You are being filmed (not photos) from four cameras before you ever enter the intersection, and all the way through. Those clips are then reviewed, and forwarded on to the agency who then decides on the option to cite.

The cameras film the front of the vehicle, the rear of the vehicle, the signal, and your face as you drive through.

Also displayed is when the light went red, and how long afterwards you entered the intersection.

Most of the agencies I have seen only send a ticket if you are more than 1 second after the red.

I have seen some where they were three or more seconds after red and the people fight it.

As you can see, these would be real difficult to fight, and the only way I have seen be sucessfull is if the yellow light is not timed correctly.

It is fun to watch the red light camera crashes. I have seen quite a few. Also interesting to hear about the changes in people's stories when they find out the whole collision is on video.

 

I used to have problems with red lights when I would ride my motorcycle. The sensors in the road were not sensitive enough to know that the bike was there and would not change to green until a car pulled up. Late at night this could be a long wait so occasionally I would run the light. Cops never gave me any trouble. Wonder if the same could be said of a camera and a judge with a rubber stamp?

 

Probably won't pick you up. I have never seen a MC in one, but I am no authority.

If it got to a judge, you'd already be busted.

 

Everything's that simple, huh?

The reality of the situation is that the manufacturers of traffic cameras are in on the profit of these things. They (Lockheed Martin makes most of these) get a substantial percentage of each ticket.

Additionally, local municipalites are viewing these things less as a safety device and more of a profit device.

It's been shown in many areas that the yellow lights are too short to safely stop in time. In fact, at intersections where these cameras are installed, accident rates go UP - rear end collisions.

So you can say that anyone who gets a ticket from a camera is a lawbreaker who deserves to pay the fine, but the real world works differently.

 

The way it is supposed to work is that the intersection is supposed to be calibrated to the speed limit, and then the camera is installed. I can't say how often that happens, but I'd bet it wasn't much.

The higher incidence of rear end collisions does not justify you running a red light, try using that defense in court.

Define substantial... As I know it they get a percentage of the profit until the cost of the unit is paid off, then they go down to a lower percentage to cover operating fees.

Yes, they are a cash cow, but one you can avoid paying into buy driving safely.

 

I'll give your suggestion a try sometime.

 

I'm sure motorists around you will appreciate that.

And yes Andy, it IS that simple:

I don't run red lights
I don't get a ticket for running a red light
I don't have to pay the city of Allen nor Lockheed Martin
(...and as a bonus, I don't sideswipe and kill your wife and 4 year-old daughter with my 17,000lbs of steel.)

No matter what your perception of the "real world" is, does it make a difference if you get caught commiting a traffic infraction by a camera or by a motorcycle cop parked behind a traffic control box? (No...)

 

Here in Charlotte NC these traffic light scamera's and speed scamera's are a cash cow for the city. They do not affect your insurance points and the only positive aspect is that they free up the police to respond to what they deem more urgent business.

 

Maybe you'll change your tune when you slam on the brakes to stop in time for a yellow light that's intentionally timed too short for the speed limit on the road you're on. I hope someone doesn't rear-end you because you were afraid of getting a ticket.

It probably won't happen to you, but it happens to thousands of other people every year.

Also, FWIW, California's fine for running a red light is $346. In the city of San Diego, traffic camers accounted for $827,000 in revenue in 1999. Police officer citations for red light violations accounted for $62,000 during the same time period.

Think about it - Do you REALLY believe it's all about safety?

In Tempe, AZ Lockheed Martin maintains the traffic cameras under contract. Tempe conducted a study that shows just increasing the length of the yellow light decreased red light running by 50% - 8% more than the decrease that San Francisco reported at intersections monitored by red light cameras. So did Tempe increase the yellow light length instead?

No.

Why? The Lockheed Martin contract PROHIBITED Tempe from doing that.

Clearly, it's all about safety.

 

Who cares about who or what is making money! That's not the point!!!! If you were not running red lights in the first place, you wouldn't be getting nailed by a camera and you wouldn't be fighting a ticket right now.

Oh I'm not effraid of getting a ticket. What I am doing is called obeying the laws.

 

Deleted upon edit.

One of these days I'll learn...