Okay, i've gotten to the point in my project where I need to start preparing the engine. The project in question is a 73 F250 4x4 with a 4inch lift, NP435, NP205, dana 60's and 38 inch tires with 4.10 gears currently (will switch to 4.88 later). The truck originally came with a worn out .30 over 360 and I purchased a 390 just for the crank and rods for $50. The 390 block is .40 over and all the internals seemed to be in great shape, but the block itself was a little rusty, especially around the cylinder cooling passages.

I plan to use the 360 block with the 390 crank and rods. I already did the oiling modifications (enlarging the oil passages to the pump, chamfering the edges for the oil filter, and matching the oil passages to the main bearings, Melling HV-57 Oilpump) and I bought a pair of rebuilt C7AE-A heads (not exactly sure what CC)with the larger valves. I plan to use the Crane Sportsman series Roller Rockers and ARP hardware all around so I can run high rpms longer and worry free. I have a set of Hedman Headders and an Edelbrock Performer 390 aluminum intake manifold. I'll be using the Crane XR-i to limit the rpms to around 5500 for safety. Since the truck will be used for mudding it will have to sustain mid to high RPMs for a good length of time. There is also a windage tray to help keep the oil in its place during the bumpy rides.

And here is where I need your help...

I want to build the engine for good mid-range power with a good amount of torque on 91 octane . This truck will mainly be used for mudding, trail riding and a little street driving on weekends. The block will most likely be bored .40 over to clear the ridges left by the 360 pistions.

What pistons would you recommend for my setup to obtain an optimal C/R of 9.5-10? Should I go with Forged pistons since it will have to sustain high rpms under load? Could you give me some part numbers and general prices?

What Cam would best suppliment the items listed above and would best suit my needs?

This is my first time ever building an engine, actually this whole project is full of "first times" from rebuilding The transfercase, Transmission, front and rear axles, and brakes..I have learned so much and im loving it! It has taken me three years already and the engine is the last big hurdle. Any and all help, opinons, suggestions, and recommendations are greatly appreciated! (check out my gallery to see the truck as its coming along)

Thanks in advance!

Oh by the way, would it be possible to get Desktop Dyno figures with the reccomended pistons and cam using a 670CFM Holley Truck Avenger?

 

From the sounds of it you're not really shooting for "high RPMs"; 5500 is pretty reasonable. That being said, my first recommendation is to sell your Performer intake and get a Performer RPM. The Performer is a fine manifold for a daily driver but it runs out of breath at around 4000-4500 RPM; you'll be much happier with the RPM.

For cam recommendations the Crane 941 is very popular on this board and there's a ton of previous treads. I'm running the Crane 801 but I have Edelbrock heads; I'm not sure your iron heads would support the 801 too well unless you do a little port work. There are many other cam choices so you might do a thread search and follow the debates.

For pistons I don't think you need to get too crazy because your planned build is relatively mild. I found some Sealed Power forged pistons in Summit for about $280; advertised CR is 9.9. The part number is TRW-L2291F30 (that's for 30 over so you'll probably need to substitute a 40 in last two digits). If that price is too steep then there's cast offerings too for a little less money.

Since this is your first build I would recommend that you collect all your parts then find a good shop to do the assembly, at least the bottom end. You can almost plan on needing your rods reworked and possibly the crank too. And of course you want the block to be checked before you buy anything to make sure it's solid. No sense buying pistons for a block you can't use. Have fun but plan on spending way more than you anticipate; somehow it always turns out that way!

 

First things first: PORT YOUR HEADS!

Now then...

Get TRW L2291F40 pistons. They are forged units, with the correct specs you'll want. Get a Mr. Gasket .020" thick shim head gasket. This will give you .032" quench space, and, depending on chamber CC's, somewhere around 9.8:1 compression.

Then run a Crane 343941 cam. I have one in my 390, and it makes it's best power right where you want it (according to the butt-o-meter anyway). If you like spending more money, get a Crane 349521 roller cam. You should use one step stiffer than their recommended springs though, due to experience from one of our other members (Gtex). The roller cam will really help, but wether it's worth the money is up to you.

On the other things:
Run ARP bolts, especially the rod bolts.
Use and ARP oil pump drive shaft. This is mandatory. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Get the HD rocker shafts, and cast iron stands. Get good valves, not the two-piece welded units. Get good pushrods.
Use locktite on the cam retention plate screws.

If I think of any other places someone can go wrong building an FE, I'll be sure to post it.

 

Hey thanks guys, I really appreciate your help. I can now go forth with confidence in my build. The Pistons and Cam were the only thing I was confused about cause i've read of so many different combinations. but now that I got two recommendations on the same two products, i'll go ahead and get them and trade the performer 390 intake for an RPM. I failed to mention that the heads were already ported by the shop that rebuilt them, the Intake ports are much larger than the ones on the stock intake manifold and even the performer 390. I also plan to run the Crane Sportsman series roller rockers which include new shafts, steel stands, and end supports. I'm getting ARP hardware for everthing. I know 5500rpm isnt too high, but I want to know that the engine could run at that rpm for long periods of time without a second thought [Gotta keep the speed up to clean the tread on the boggers]

Anyways, thanks guys, you really cleared things up for me. I'll keep you posted on the build. right now I have everything loaded on the truck to drop off at a local machine shop who are familiar with FE's, however I will still do the final assembly myself cause I want the experience.

Thanks again

 

If you're going to keep the RPM's up for an extended period of time, you should probably consider an FT (Ford Truck) oil pan. They have about double the oil capacity of a normal oil pan IIRC. This will keep you from sucking the pan dry. Most auto parts stores will have a pickup tube, just tell 'em it's for a, uh, 1973 F600 with a 391. These pans come up every so often on Ebay, or you might find one in a junkyard.

 

Amtek, what oilpan do you have now ? In my youth I destroyed a 390 by running it in a 4x4 with a car pan on it. It fits just fine and you can get away with it on flat roads. Do some hill climbing and of the oil runs to the back of the pan and then bad things happen, very bad things. On the next engine, I used the rear sump pan that came on the trucks original equipmnt 360. I also used the windage tray from a 428CJ. To use the tray with the 4wd pan you have to make a mount for the pickup tube and attach it to the tray, or you can drill a hole in the pan and use the long bolt that the 4wds come with on #3 main. I put about 7 quarts in with the factory pan and tray setup and have been okay so far. As to pistons, the L2291Fs are great, but you might also consider the H395Ps from speedpro, they are a hypereutechtic casting. Stronger than ordinary cast, but only slightly les strong than forged, but closer to the cast price. They will probably be listed in your parts book as 360 pistons. They have a 1.75 pin height and flattops and will do fine for what you have in mind. and for cams, I have a Crane '801 in on of my FEs and like it very much ( 390, ported iron C8AE-H heads ) it is plenty more than stock but it still idles okay in a 2wd 3.5 gear auto tranny truck. I use it as a daily driver and for pulling trailers of firewood. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea to ditch the performer. Get an RPM, a BlueThunder, or an old F427 or P.I. or Sidewinder. And whats with the 5500 limit ?Thats a bit conservative, don't you think ? I would go for 6250, with out any worries at all. DF, @ his Dad's house

 

Dino, the H395P's do not have the same compression height as the L2291's. The H395P's have a 1.759" compression height, and the L2291's have a 1.776" compression height.

The H395P's give a calculated deck clearance of .031", while the L2291's give a deck clearance of .014". When we start talking about quench distance, this is significant. With the H395P, you have to run at most a .020" thick gasket, just to have a quench distance of .051"! With the L2291's, you can run either the Fel-Pro, and have a quench distance of .055", or use a .020" thick head gasket and have a quench distance of .034", which is a lot better. (Edit: When I said .032" in my above post, that's what it came out to on my motor, since I measured the deck clearance of my 390 to .012". If you calculate it, it should be .014")

Comparing price, the H395P's are $9.69 per piston from Summit, and the L2291's are $36.69 per piston from Summit. That's quite a difference, but if you want to build the best motor possible, the choice is obvious.

 

Rusty, the other thing about the L2291Fs is the weight, those suckers are heavy ! I used a set of them in a 421, and milled .100 of from the tops of each one, and they still seemed heavy, 721 grams IIRC. The H395ps are less weighty, and will do fine under his stress level. I always use the .017 thick factory shim gaskets, whenever possible. But if you're going for max quench ( and you should ) you can gain .oo5 in stroke if you have a freindly crank grinder and he doesn't mind a few extra minutes setting you up, but that is only if you plan on grinding the crank anyway.....or you can lightly shave the block decks .010~.015. That will keep the quench nice and tight. I would agree fordged pistons are the best, but most of us don't really need them. Keep in mind the 428s came with cast pistons from the factory, most of them did just fine, even getting beat to heck in mustangs. And the hypers are way ahead of the stock syle cast. I would spend the money in other places. And the hypers are what we install the most of at the shop I'm with, and what I'll choose for my next build. DF,@ his Dad's house

 

I'll be using the rear-sump from the original 360 that was in the truck, I dont remember, but I dont think anything else would fit because of the big crossmember under the front of the engine. I did see that I will have to modify the windage tray a bit to fit the rear-sump oil pickup but it shouldnt be too hard.

and now your confusing me with all these numbers! lol

 

I think the FT pan will fit even on a 4x4. As for using it with a windage tray, check out my setup here:

http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f25...0/ftoilpan.htm

Via ebay I had about $50 invested after shipping and paint.

 

check out these "FORD FE 427 HI RISE HEADS EXCELLENT COND"
EBAY Item number: 7994688903

 

I am running the Mildon rear sump truck pan 8Qt. Works great but had to modify it due to it hitting crossmember. Cost 25.00 to modify.

 

I would put 4.250 crank in it and have a poormans 428. That is what I am going to do whenever I rebuild mine. I want that extra low end torque.

 

Hi Again

Got an update, The block will have to be milled .60 over to clear the ridges left by the 360 pistons and the crank ground .20/.20 to clean up two small groves on the journals. This place does FE's all the time and they even commented on how well I did the oiling modifications so that was a little reassuring.

Now at first I was going to order the TRW-L2291F60 pistons but it'll cost $310 a set and a set of Hypereutectic pistons are about $100. My question now is, Are there any Hypereutectic pistons that have the same dimensions and specs as the Forged TRW-L2291F60 pistons? Or are they my only choice?

I dont mind spending $300 for a good pistons, but I wouldnt want to spend it if it wasnt neccessary.

Any advice?

thanks in advance!

 

I built an engine similar to what you are considering about 15 years ago and still run it in my 66 now. 360 block bored .060, cast pistons, .010-.020 390 crank, 428 windage tray, melling pump, C2SE-B heads, stock 4V intake
I did have it balanced and use a remote oil filter. I also pluged the lifter gallies and run a solid lifter cam. A few years ago I installed a "mexican" overdrive transmission. With the 3:70 gears I drive it like a regular 4 speed and get very good fuel millage. The only problem I see is that I "over camed" it and it is a little short on low end torque. This is a great engine and with a RV cam would be even better.