View Poll Results: Max Timing advance for the FE446
less than 34
0
0%
36-37
0
0%
40-41
0
0%
42-43
0
0%
44-45
0
0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll
Total Timing Advance
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
Total Timing Advance
Guys,
I'm looking for your opinions on where the total advanced timing should be for my FE446 motor. I understand most like to run as much advance as possible without pinging. But, I'd like to know where you all think that would be based on this build.
Some basics on the engine:
Comp Ratio - about 10.2:1
cam duration @.050 222/228 I/E
cam lift- hydraulic roller .584/.607 I/E
Edel heads, CJ valves, RPM Intake, BG SpeedDemon 850 Carb, MSD Ignition with billet dizzy
Stroke- 4.125"
Bore- 4.15"
Running on 93 Octane pump unleaded
I'm looking for your opinions on where the total advanced timing should be for my FE446 motor. I understand most like to run as much advance as possible without pinging. But, I'd like to know where you all think that would be based on this build.
Some basics on the engine:
Comp Ratio - about 10.2:1
cam duration @.050 222/228 I/E
cam lift- hydraulic roller .584/.607 I/E
Edel heads, CJ valves, RPM Intake, BG SpeedDemon 850 Carb, MSD Ignition with billet dizzy
Stroke- 4.125"
Bore- 4.15"
Running on 93 Octane pump unleaded
Last edited by gtex; Aug 9, 2005 at 03:57 AM.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 541
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix Az, by way of Fre
I've read, that as cu.in. increase, the need for advance decreases.
I've also read, that more efficient combustion chambers require less advance.
Also, running just short of detonation is not always where max power will occure, but is a good rule of thumb I guess.
My guess would be to run ~32-34, but, I'm just guessing.
Maybe the smarter guys will poke holes in what I've 'read'.
I've also read, that more efficient combustion chambers require less advance.
Also, running just short of detonation is not always where max power will occure, but is a good rule of thumb I guess.
My guess would be to run ~32-34, but, I'm just guessing.
Maybe the smarter guys will poke holes in what I've 'read'.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
From: iowa
I think 38-40 is good stock, now they say to take away 2 degrres for every 100 extra hp. So I am think with your compression and engine 32-34 sounds about right as cleanlx said. Combustion chamber design plays a part in the mix too. I have no experience with the edelbrock head or combustion chamber. I happen to know 32-34 is all you need a 351 cleveland closed chamber head.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Originally Posted by cleanLX
I've also read, that more efficient combustion chambers require less advance.
Also, running just short of detonation is not always where max power will occure, but is a good rule of thumb I guess.
Also, running just short of detonation is not always where max power will occure, but is a good rule of thumb I guess.
KB makes a 428 piston that gives good quench, and they say this in their remarks: "The step head design is intended to provide a usable quench and fast flame travel. You will not want a lot of ignition timing."
So I guess the question becomes, what's your piston to head clearance?
FE "Freakin Expensive"
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 4
From: Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Well as I voted 34 to 35 @6000rpm... thats what I came up with on an Iron headed motor....I am not quite sure about an Aluminum Headed motor ? I had allways thought they took a little less timing?? Shoot I cant remember ?? Old Age!! LOL...
Russ
Russ
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
I'm guessing 32-36.
Put your new GTech meter to good use. Run a baseline 0-60 or 1/4 on your favorite "Private" road with the timing as is. Write the total advance and e.t. down. Now the fun part pull the total back to 30-32 degrees, run it, record time, bump it up 2-4 repeat... Find the point where the times start decreasing and back up one step. Test and Tune, trial and error.
The SOTP meter can be fooled by too much total timing...it may pull like gang busters down low with 38 but you'll see in your times that it's falling on it's face up high..
Put your new GTech meter to good use. Run a baseline 0-60 or 1/4 on your favorite "Private" road with the timing as is. Write the total advance and e.t. down. Now the fun part pull the total back to 30-32 degrees, run it, record time, bump it up 2-4 repeat... Find the point where the times start decreasing and back up one step. Test and Tune, trial and error.
The SOTP meter can be fooled by too much total timing...it may pull like gang busters down low with 38 but you'll see in your times that it's falling on it's face up high..
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
hs is all great info guys. keep it coming!
the truck managed to get me to work and back, plus a trip home for lunch last night. At one point the tranny temp gauge pegged out at 253F. BUt, I figured it was an air pocket or smoe error, since it had almost know time to warm up. Sure enough, it dropped back down suddenly to where it has been running in the 150s.
I think the new fan controller is working like it's supposed to. So, I'm getting through some of the gremlins Strokster and I saw at the track last time.
I may go to the track tomorrow night and play with the timing etc. Since my local "private" road didn't work out so well. It's hard to find a decent stretch of pavement where you wind this beast up to a 100mph, 6000rpm and not get noticed.
the truck managed to get me to work and back, plus a trip home for lunch last night. At one point the tranny temp gauge pegged out at 253F. BUt, I figured it was an air pocket or smoe error, since it had almost know time to warm up. Sure enough, it dropped back down suddenly to where it has been running in the 150s.
I think the new fan controller is working like it's supposed to. So, I'm getting through some of the gremlins Strokster and I saw at the track last time.
I may go to the track tomorrow night and play with the timing etc. Since my local "private" road didn't work out so well. It's hard to find a decent stretch of pavement where you wind this beast up to a 100mph, 6000rpm and not get noticed.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
Both of these are exactly true, but that's not quite all of it. If you have a good quench distance, like .030" to .040" you really dont need to, and probably shouldn't, run a lot of timing.
So I guess the question becomes, what's your piston to head clearance?
So I guess the question becomes, what's your piston to head clearance?
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Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
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Likes: 21
From: Texas
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
Well?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
No, the number I'm looking for is quench distance. This is piston to deck clearance, added to head gasket compressed thickness. The tighter quench you run, the less timing you need. That's what I'm trying to determine. Do you at least know what head gaskets you're running?
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
Yup, the .041" compressed Fel-Pros. I'll have to dig for the compression height on the Ross Pistons. I think I gave it to you once before. And you calculated that the cmop ratio wasn't the 10.5:1 that Flatlander told me.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
holy bat Turds, I actually find one of the old threads with the piston info:
Confirmed: these are the 72cc heads.
now for piston info: I've got a 4 page build sheet for these Ross Racing pistons. I hope I can get what you need from them.
I'm running BBC rods. I think they are 6.7"
C.H. (compression height, I assume) = 1.388
Net Dome CCs =-15.000
Dish depth= .135
Int V.P. Depth= 0.200
Exh V.P. depth= 0.180
piston weight= 509 grams
Confirmed: these are the 72cc heads.
now for piston info: I've got a 4 page build sheet for these Ross Racing pistons. I hope I can get what you need from them.
I'm running BBC rods. I think they are 6.7"
C.H. (compression height, I assume) = 1.388
Net Dome CCs =-15.000
Dish depth= .135
Int V.P. Depth= 0.200
Exh V.P. depth= 0.180
piston weight= 509 grams
FE "Freakin Expensive"
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 4
From: Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Greg, I dont know if you had you EdHeads CCed or not ?? but the guys I know that run them an have CCed them found out they were actually 74cc's rather than the advertised 72cc's ??
Just what I've heard....
Russ
Just what I've heard....
Russ