bill i did not take it that way.
in here we have many, many of the good guys,like jeff clark, pollar bear, ford doctor, torqe 1 and many more. we all take pride in our work, take pride in how we do it and above all this site
what i am asking for the sake of our good guys in here , stealership is demeaning. if we could please use something like bum dealer or bad dealer experiance.
i know and under stand how it feels to be screwed by the bad ones "been there" and we have to vent off the steam. lets just try and think of our co-members who try and help with good truthfull advise for free to you that we have learned on the job.
yes there are times when we have problems that mean a return trip or we did not find the whole problem. we do truthfuly try.

 

stealership is demeaning

I agree 150%...

...I have never used this term in any of my posts. There are crooks in every profession.

 

Regarding whether to talk to a dealer about your trade first or last, I emphatically agree with DZari on this. If you talk trade first, you'll never know how much you actually paid for your vehicle or how much you actually got for your trade. You've given the dealer all the room he needs to play the "numbers" game. IMO (and Consumers Reports!), the best strategy is to get your very best deal and only then bring up the trade angle.NOW you really know how much the dealer is willing to give you. Chances are almost certain that, had you talked trade first, you would have been offered "more" for it. But, chances are equally certain that the vehicle you want to buy would be discounted "less". That's why almost all salespeople want to know early on if you have a vehicle to trade. It gives them a significant legs up in the negotiations. Why give them the advantage? Keeping the trade question a mystery until you get the best deal (using all the ploys you can, such as knowing dealers invoice, reasonable mark-ups, etc.) keeps the trump card in your pocket.


Finally, if the trade offer is significantly below Kelly's trade-in estimate, don't rule out selling it yourself. True, this can be a hassle but you could save thousands of dollars by doing so.

 

Here's another trick tell them that you are going to use their financing and they will give you a better price. Because they know that they can tack on a half or a whole percentage point on the loan (Interest) and make more money off of you. After you get all the numbers hammered out, trade in, price of vehicle tell them that you changed you mind and are going to provide your own financing with you bank.Your bank or credit union will beat their intrest rates guaranteed and a half a point will ad up a suprising amount over the course of a loan.

 

Excellent suggestion Sphinx! Another tool in the arsenal.