Exausting exhaust questions....
Postmaster
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From: New Hampshire
rs6... i wanted to do stacks... that's the best.. but i really don't want to be cleaning the 28' 5ver everytime i tow it somewhere... so i just got the btm to lower my egts a little... the nice thing about the single exhaust the exits on one side is that it pumps out soo much exhaust under such pressure when you are towing that any soot in the exhaust gas is well out to the side by the time it gets to the 5ver... so.. no black soot on the white 5ver...!
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Originally Posted by martin14
I have now installed a AEROTUBINE muffler and still sounds the same. Maybe if I buy a AURORA 2000 ($2K) the flutter will go away!!!!!!!
As for flutter - I find it kind of annoying, but not something I can't live with. The positive benefits of this exhaust are well worth it.
The worst flutter I have ever heard was on a Caterpillar 657 twin engine scraper. This giant tractor uses a pair of very big, Cat, diesel V8, single turbo engines. First time I heard one, I thought it was misfiring on several cylinders per engine. Then I realized ALL of them sound that way.
If anyone has any suggestions on how to reduce/eliminate flutter, I'm all ears. That is, anything short of going back to the stock exhaust!!
Postmaster
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From: New Hampshire
i got to "give 'er some" yesterday with the wife riding shootgun and the windows down... she looks at me and says "is that the way it is supposed to sound..?" i said.."close... it still needs to be a little deeper sounding... wait till i get the 5" exhaust on it then it will sound right...!" she just shook her head and rolled her eyes... i guess it's a guy thing...!
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From: Near DC
Originally Posted by martin14
Hey steve250, how could the SWISHER cure the flutter? the swisher goes on the compressor side of the turbo and the flutter comes from the turbine side(exhuast).
See the series of "????" after my line on that.
It was a question.
Ok ya'll, so, what causes the flutter and or where does it come from and go to.
Since I'm still stock turbo back, I don't know what the flutter sounds like.
Now, compressor stall I know.
Surge, not too sure about.
Last edited by Steve_250; Jul 24, 2005 at 10:52 AM.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by Steve_250
Was Kwik still getting flutter with the Swisher and 4" turbo back?
I don't think so, think the swishey cured it. (????)
Aryn?
I don't think so, think the swishey cured it. (????)
Aryn?
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From: Near DC
So ya think a 4" DP and 4" or 5" back will help?
A 5 more so than a 4?
I guess the sound is kind'a like a propellor sucking air in front of it and it swirls downward 90 degrees ahead of the from position where it bites the air. Creates turbulence (pulses? Slapping?). I've heard fluttering from a prop when a blast of wind comes from the side.
A 5 more so than a 4?
I guess the sound is kind'a like a propellor sucking air in front of it and it swirls downward 90 degrees ahead of the from position where it bites the air. Creates turbulence (pulses? Slapping?). I've heard fluttering from a prop when a blast of wind comes from the side.
Last edited by Steve_250; Jul 24, 2005 at 11:28 AM.
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Steve,
It sounds like the same kind of flutter you are describing - but it also seems to be made much worse by the uneven exhaust pulsing of a V8. While a V8 has even firing (every 90 degrees), the exhaust manifolds combine the flow from each bank - and each bank most definitely is NOT even firing!! That is why typical American V8s sound a little rough and a lot rumbly, while a Ferrarri V8 smoothly snarls - the Ferrarri uses 180 degree headers that combine the exhaust flow smoothly for better scavenging.
It sounds like the same kind of flutter you are describing - but it also seems to be made much worse by the uneven exhaust pulsing of a V8. While a V8 has even firing (every 90 degrees), the exhaust manifolds combine the flow from each bank - and each bank most definitely is NOT even firing!! That is why typical American V8s sound a little rough and a lot rumbly, while a Ferrarri V8 smoothly snarls - the Ferrarri uses 180 degree headers that combine the exhaust flow smoothly for better scavenging.
Fleet Owner
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by arninetyes
Steve,
It sounds like the same kind of flutter you are describing - but it also seems to be made much worse by the uneven exhaust pulsing of a V8. While a V8 has even firing (every 90 degrees), the exhaust manifolds combine the flow from each bank - and each bank most definitely is NOT even firing!! That is why typical American V8s sound a little rough and a lot rumbly, while a Ferrarri V8 smoothly snarls - the Ferrarri uses 180 degree headers that combine the exhaust flow smoothly for better scavenging.
It sounds like the same kind of flutter you are describing - but it also seems to be made much worse by the uneven exhaust pulsing of a V8. While a V8 has even firing (every 90 degrees), the exhaust manifolds combine the flow from each bank - and each bank most definitely is NOT even firing!! That is why typical American V8s sound a little rough and a lot rumbly, while a Ferrarri V8 smoothly snarls - the Ferrarri uses 180 degree headers that combine the exhaust flow smoothly for better scavenging.
I am convinced that there is a lot of power to be gained simply by balancing the exhaust pulses and smoothing the exhaust flow. All that turbulence must be overcome with HP to blow it out of the way.
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I agree Kwik. While diesel manufacturers don't bother with exhaust manifold design - or header design - like gasser manufacturers do, I think a big part of the solution would be to redesign the PSD manifolds into a short "Tri-Y" design to improve and smooth out flow.
The 'log' type manifolds found on the PSD haven't been used on gassers for years because of how badly they ruin flow. The following pic is of a set of 'turbo-headers' for a Mitsubishi. I can't help but think something like this would be of benefit to PSDs.
Of course, then you would have to have someone who could design them AND the uppipes to fit an otherwise stock truck (or there wouldn't be much market). Then they would have to have the capitol to manufacture them. Then they would have to sell them at high enough price to profit, but low enough that people wouldn't say "How much? Nah. I'd rather buy a new turbo."
So, right now, I have no solution.
The 'log' type manifolds found on the PSD haven't been used on gassers for years because of how badly they ruin flow. The following pic is of a set of 'turbo-headers' for a Mitsubishi. I can't help but think something like this would be of benefit to PSDs.
Of course, then you would have to have someone who could design them AND the uppipes to fit an otherwise stock truck (or there wouldn't be much market). Then they would have to have the capitol to manufacture them. Then they would have to sell them at high enough price to profit, but low enough that people wouldn't say "How much? Nah. I'd rather buy a new turbo."
So, right now, I have no solution.
Last edited by arninetyes; Jul 24, 2005 at 01:24 PM.
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From: LAKE FORK TEXAS
I have a neighbor who has a 5" system with a 6"x16" chrome tip and 4"downpipe and either the flutter is almost gone or it sounds so deep you cant hear it. I hear him every morning when he goes by, Sounds Awesome, best sounding exhaust i ever heard on a powerstroke.I want one really bad but I'm just too cheap at the moment to spend the 400.00 it takes for a 5" system. My straight piped factory system does have a lot of flutter but is hardly noticable with the windows up.
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Originally Posted by Steve_250
The swisher IS a turbine.
See the series of "????" after my line on that.
It was a question.
Ok ya'll, so, what causes the flutter and or where does it come from and go to.
Since I'm still stock turbo back, I don't know what the flutter sounds like.
Now, compressor stall I know.
Surge, not too
sure about.
See the series of "????" after my line on that.
It was a question.
Ok ya'll, so, what causes the flutter and or where does it come from and go to.
Since I'm still stock turbo back, I don't know what the flutter sounds like.
Now, compressor stall I know.
Surge, not too
sure about.
When you put in an after market exhuast you will hear the real fluter comming out the exhuast. it kinda sounds like you are blowing air into a fan.
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I have a 4" DP and 5" exhaust. The flutter is there, definitely, though I haven't heard the truck driven by me.
With the window down, I can hear it echo off flat, vertical objects (cars, large curbs, walls). Most of the time, the flutter doesn't seem that loud. If I am getting on it at all (more than 10 to 15 percent throttle), I don't notice it at all, just the engine and a deep exhaust note. With the windows up, I never hear any trace of the flutter.
I know the flutter isn't as bad as a friend with stock pipe, but muffler replaced by straight pipe.
With the window down, I can hear it echo off flat, vertical objects (cars, large curbs, walls). Most of the time, the flutter doesn't seem that loud. If I am getting on it at all (more than 10 to 15 percent throttle), I don't notice it at all, just the engine and a deep exhaust note. With the windows up, I never hear any trace of the flutter.
I know the flutter isn't as bad as a friend with stock pipe, but muffler replaced by straight pipe.
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