Yeah, the 24V cummins are much better than the old 12V. They were dogs off the line, but work horses. I've owned 5 diesels now, two of them Dodges, one with the older 12V engine. Ran forever, but it was pretty slow, even for a diesel. At the time, I just accepted it for what it was. The new(er) 24V Cummins is much more driver friendly. It'll downright move for a huge vehicle. My most recent Ford diesel was a 98 F350 with the 6.0. Great truck, but I did find it slightly lacking in low end torque compared to the IL six cyl engines and it did use more fuel. Great truck though overall. I'd certainly buy one again. My current diesel (Cummins) was just a sweetheart deal & I couldn't pass it up.

 

I failed to mention it is an 03 with 36k on it as of now. Anyway it's 10 times the truck of the gutless 96 460 superduty it replaced.

 

Isn't it amazing the leaps that diesels have taken in the last few years? For the past 30 years, they were pretty much the same, and now they are finally significantly increasing in performance, power and even economy. Thank X (pick your favorite conjured religious diety) for that!

 

For you that think Cummins doesn't belong to Ford you need to investigate a little.In fact Dodge is busy shopping around for a replacement and has been seriously looking at Cat.Dodge has the right to Cummins till either 2007 or 2008 (condition set out when Ford bought Cummins).

 

Please get your facts straight. Ford does not own Cummins. Cummins even states it on its website http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.j...menuIndex=4#Q2

Maybe you should investigate a little

 

Diesels have progressed pretty steadily the last thirty years. The only thing different now is the automakers are in a hp war. Like airfare wars there is always a loser. This time I think it will be the consumer.
Higher rpms mean more combustion events. Higher rpms mean fewer miles to overhaul. Not so long ago you bought a diesel cause you needed to tow something. I want a diesel not to be fast but to be reliable, durable and get good fuel mileage at the same time.

 

Where do these people come from??

 

I know you've forgotten more about diesels than I'll ever know.......I question a lot of your effiency and torque comments(I-6 compared to V8) but I'll save that for another day.


The diesel vs gasser debate will NEVER be settled.......that being said, EVERY diesel maker, including the venerable Cummins, has tried to get closer to emulating gassers in NVH, and to a lesser extent, powerbands.

Before I get jumped on, look at the first offerings of diesels; Ford fan here but the first 6.9's were below anemic.......the Cummins; absolute dog, turbo and all. Won't even bring up the GM 6.2/6.5....

Do we think the diesels would be anywhere near as popular now if they didn't have that macho torque advantage or the HP approaching the gassers?

I read Al Bundy's Cummins link and got a chuckle when the power advantage of diesels was because of compression and mixing the fuel different and blah blah blah.

The advantage of diesel is forced induction..........end of story.


The reason for this long winded post is that the HP wars of the Diesels has to continue.........they will still out last a gasser simply because of the lower operating RPM's (read torque) and both gasser and diesel will still out last all the trucks built around 'em.

Basically saying with gassers nearing 500 pound feet of torque and 360 HP. The diesels HAVE to stay ahead (at least in the torque catergory) or nobody would buy 'em.


Would you HONESTLY buy a 180HP 360#(?) 6.9 over a 360 HP V10???

I actually think this is the GREATEST era in auto/truck history with the performance available, reliability and even economy (factoring MPG to HP for the gassers) Sadly, it will be ending soon with the fuel prices continuing to climb to where I have to take a 2nd mortgage out to take my boat out for the weekend.

The diesels are getting closer to being accepted by me (purely subjective) they've all got the noise down admirably, the vibration is nearing gasser level(have read some of the VW diesels you can't tell you're in a diesel) and as the gasser may become extinct, I'm glad as heck the diesels are taking the direction they are. (a lot of this rant has to do with my $700 Chevron bill this month for the V10, Lightning and Marauder )


Dang, my fingers are tired .........Peace out.

 

Diesels thermal efficiency is from its compression which is possible only with direct injection.

Not every buyer is driven by hp and torque numbers. I myself have bought dozens of ford 300s. Obviously they didnt win any races.

Honestly, any day of the week. I was very happy with my na 6.9s performance. It did exactly what I needed it to do. I think more people are being driven by fuel cost nowadays too.

My brothers last v10 was in the single digits in fuel economy. You pay for the power at the pump.

 

Us v10 boys may pay at the pump but the deisel boys pay at the purchace, at financing charges for the more expensive cost, at the pump (now .10 to .25 higher than gas), at oil change time, at tire replacement time, at battery replacement time, at air filter replacement time, at fuel filter replacement time, oh and then again at any out of the ordanary repairs just because it says deisel on the little badge. Did I mention the stinky oil spot your standing in while fueling up your $40k pickup or even just trying to find a place that carries deisel. How about having to shut it off at the drive throughs (I've tried this in an 04' 6.0L, they actually asked us to shut it off!!!) or how about losing that great mileage (which isn't that great to start with) for 6 months of the year when you have to switch to winter blend (up here anyways), or waiting 20mins for thing to warm up in the winter so you have some warm air out of the defroster or waiting 20 mins for it to cool down after towing with it in the summer, or making sure it's pluged in every night in the winter so it'll start the next morning. gosh I can't hardly beleive I didn't buy a deisel for the 6k miles a year I drive my pickup, there are hardly any negitive values to it, lol lol lol. Now some of this is my opinion but most is fact so get use to finding beter ways to justify your 5000 engine that you guys had to have, well some do really need it but for those that don't thats sure an expensive luxury that that a 5.4L, a 6.8L or a metro could do as good.

Sorry thats my rant after comments like the one above, I have no problem with deisels, I don't need one so I didn't buy one. They are wonderful machines when used for there purpose but many are used as grociery getters and that anoys me, as gas prices are based on supply and demand, if people used vehicel for what they were intended many wouldn't have much more than a metro as that whats many use there trucks for. Don't start bashing things that arn't related, and I know I'm way off subject and am playing devils advacate with this post but it's just a response to the above post thats some what of an ignorant unjustified post. what does V10 fuel mileage have to do with the thread, about as much as all the negitives I listed above!!!

lets stay on topic so I don't have to jump in and be a dink like I just did!! Kevlar is now on, Fire when ready!

 

.

I would have to agree with that. The impressive numbers that modern diesels are posting would seem a lot less impressive if every 5.4, 5.3, v-10,8.1, all of them-came from the factory running 10lbs of boost and an intercooler. They would also become more fuel efficient that way. If you could keep your foot out of it..............

 

Oh, just a side note ford was a stock holder of cummins, not the owner. I would have to look but I believe they have actually sold most of that stock over the years, not sure on this, somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Also as far as Cat going into a pickup, it'll never happen according to CAT, a few years ago that was the rummor for ford but as we can see that didn't happen (not that it would've been a bad thing) and CAT reps made the statement that CAT engines will not be going into a pickup unless its a CAT pickup, which IMO was a ignorant statement (how coolwould that be, unrealistic but cool non the less). I'm not sure if they have changed there attitude since then but why not have a CAT diesel in a ford, chevy or Dodge?? it would definitly help that particular vehicle sell with a big CAT logo under the hood, it would be a lot like cummins bringing a large share of people over to dodge just for the engine, you cann't argue this.

 

Think you're right on about the Cummins stock owned by Ford, but it was years ago and no where approached majority shares. (like 10%????) As of NOW there is no Ford owning of Cummins stock.

As far as CAT goes............I'm not a D*I*E*S*E*L fan, I'm here learning. That being said, I think I've read here that there is no CAT motor even close to being able to work in a light duty pickup..............Even the Cummins was a stretch (a successful stretch).



edit; why, sometimes, do complete words get dropped from the text?
D*I*E*S*E*L showed up while typing, and in edit but was not in the final post????

Glitch in the Matrix? The "d" word got dropped on edit also......

 

Eye opening post for me............I've preached those exact same diesel negatives for years............got my gas bill and started thinking of the virtues of the diesel while trying to justify my previous stance.

Your supply and demand statement is frightning...........not only will diesel go up because of demand but the fact the US has to be low/no sulfer here pretty soon....I'm thinking the future cost of diesel will makes gasoline look cheap.



Logical, I believe you to be in the minority. I really don't think the average truck buyer would put up with normally aspirated diesels or even the last performance of the well respected 300 I-6. People who use their truck for work, like I assume you do, can compromise some performance for economy. The average grocery getter, soccer mom, week end boat puller wants their diesels to run more like gassers........which is what the big 2 and the German company are striving for.


PS. I understand the high compression direct injection of the diesel. My only point is that a gasser STOMPS a diesel until forced induction is added to the mix................something I felt the Cummins link was convenintly(sp?) leaving out.


Back on topic???? IMHO the Cummins vs. Ford (shouldn't it be Cummins vs Navistar?) are very close in their bombed from the factory state of tune.

I still think, from what I've read, the Cummins can take more abuse/boost.

What's funny is I think FTE is a poor sample of owners to ask this question;

How many actually bomb their trucks?

The percentage here will be much higher than the general population.

So from the factory, the choice is close with prefrence being to what truck you like best...........If all you're going to do is race in the mod classes, I'm thinking you should go Cummins.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.