Just think what a Programmer or Tuner does! They add more fuel and adjust fuel timing, mostly. Normally working the engine harder and hotter. Doing these types of mods shortened lifespans of engines of the past. Do you really think they do not affect the longevity?

 

Well, it can possibly. A lot of engines will run fine with a tuner, but there are the occasional engines that may have been bordering on the fringe of production tolerances, and enhancing the loads on it (via a tuner) can cause dilemas that previously wouldn't have been apparent without a tuner.
I have a 5.4l, and I have fitted a supercharger to it, it is now making around double the power it was making stock (750hp ish compared to 389hp stock), and I haven't had a problem with the engine. It has eaten one clutch, and a transmission like it was playlunch, and the rear axle is on the way out now, but the stock engine block has been fine, but the fueling and spark strategy is tuned very carefully to maximise engine life as well as get maximum power.

99.99% of trucks will be fine, but there are .01% of trucks, where it may cause issues.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=384386

See post #1 and #5.

That truck has 260,000 on the original engine and has had a Superchips Microtuner installed since day one. Granted, this is a 7.3 liter engine, and there are quite inherent differences in the possible longetivity in that engine vs. the 6.0, but it does go to show that there are many a long-lived powertrain that are NOT stock tuned.

You do not have a good understanding of the physical effects of safely raised amounts of fuel and injection timing. Obnoxious timing advance, boost, or fuel quantities will kill the engine- good for us, you will be hard pressed to find a reputable company selling such a tune that raises any of these parameters beyond safe, acceptable levels of what the internal parts of the engine will be comfortable with. Almost all of them use a small increase in timing, boost and fuel to acheive the desired results. As far as loading goes, a good tune will in turn REDUCE engine load both in unloaded and loaded weight conditions- this can be seen with the undesputable average mileage gains of the use of these tuners, both in cruising and towing. Less load = more economy. EGT's on my truck are noticeably cooler during cruising conditions, even with an extremely overfueled and highly timed race tune.

This isn't the same game as throwing a blower on a small block. Just what "engines of the past" were tuned in the same manner as these engines?

BTW, I see you have a Hypermax PPIII on your 7.3?

 

Technically not, but I threw that analogy up because fundamentally it is similar.
To get more power out of a Diesel you (and this is a very basic analysis) increase boost pressure, increase the amount of fuel being delivered, and the timing of the delivery.
Exactly what I did on my 5.4...
Yes the effects will be different, and the 5.4l is a completely different engine to a 6.0l, I was just using it to reinforce the fact that due to inherint design safety factors, a lot of engines will be fine with even quite a dramatic increase in power, but I still have seen a PSD (admittedly a 7.3, as thats all we get here) die with just a 65hp tune.

 

I was actually addressing the other post, I didn't have your post in mind when I said that I randomly threw it out there in response to the "engines of the past" comment. In reality, tuning your 5.4 isn't too far off from the 6.0 in terms of the basics, as you stated previously.
Just wanted to clear up the confusion.

I do believe that any engine that fails under basic safe tuning techniques was destined to fail soon regardless of the mild changes made, perhaps at a slighly later date. Realistically, IMO, an out-of-the box tuner from any reputable company makes no changes drastic enough to change the reliability of a given engine (hence I said change- the stock engine can blow at any given time, just as a tuned one can)

 

Ford Reprogramed the 7.3 and 6.0s they get from International. They already have a "Boosted" program!! Yes, I have a programmer on My 01 7.3 do I expect it to last as long as if it didn't, NO!! Do I think it would, No! Increased Temp increases wear! The More fuel in the cylinders the more that "can" bypass the rings (wet stacking) into the crankcase.

As far as Better fuel mileage, My programmer cut my mileage by 1.5 MPG!! It increased my EGTs about 100 degrees!! Boost also increased about 1 PSI normal driving! I keep mine on stage 3!!

 

How much does that right foot have to do with this?

Well over 75% of tuner users report increased mileage. All you have managed to do is post ill-informed nonsense of your own opinion. Do you have any idea how much fuel would be required to WET STACK at wide open throttle?

Once again, you have no idea how the programming actually works. All you have done is taken myths and generalities you have read here and formed an opinion about it, with no evidence to back it up.

By the way, enough with the exclamation points. Noone is yelling.

 

I average 56,000 miles a year. 01 has ( July 1, 01 ) 205,250 miles to date. 05 ( March 26, 05) has 12,753 miles and I average 54.752 Miles Per Engine Hour on it!! Needless to say I keep very detailed fuel mileage records. I spend roughly $7,200.00 on fuel every year so I am very intrested in fuel mileage improvements. Everyone I have talked to that has a programmer without excpetion, that has figured it by hand and not trusted the Lie-O-Meter has told me they have had the same results I got. The increase in EGTs and PSI is with the CC on at 65 MPH. When you drive as much as I do you really start looking at what people say on this and other sites and compare your own results. You talk to your friends with the same set-up that you have, and you compare. I stand by what I have stated here and in the past. I would say I am very well informed about everything I have talked about!!

Anyone that posts that a programmer has improved their Fuel mileage is someone that has listened to Myths and Nonsense and is just repeating that same trash!! I'll bet you think Bigger tires will increase your fuel mileage also!!

 

I'll let people make their own judgement out of our little debate. Maybe 7.3's don't see the same mileage improvements of the 6.0, but I can assure you that tuning in conjunction with a wise right foot with these engines will nearly always yield better economy.

I am done arguing here. Tuners are harmless. I am really in the mood to keep debating and get nastier if the debate heads that direction, but I have learned from this wonderful site that doing so has no good effect. Besides, this has gotten off-topic from reliability to mileage.

Nope, but lower gears will

 

O.k. I know that it is not all 7.3's that experience a decrease in MPG. My brother-in-law has a 7.3L and at one time had the Hypertech programmer on it. He did gain some mileage. I am not sure how much but I know that he did see an increase. I have noticed a very large increase in my fuel mileage after adding the six gun module to my truck. I was not getting very good mileage as I do have the larger tires but I am getting better fuel mileage now with the six gun and speed loader.

 

I have a friend that had a Predator on his 04, he drives about as much as I do. He told me his Programmer makes his run hot and he only installs it if he wanted to run someone. He also said the thing "killed his fuel mileage, just destroyed it"! He programmed it to show me what it will do, OMG it's a BAD DOG!! But it was puking coolant after the third run. We stoped and talked for about an hour to let his truck cool down. Two days later I seen him in a new 05. Called him up, He said it had ran hot too many times He felt he needed to get rid of it before it caused him some problems.

If you think they are harmless be my guest and run the heck out of one. But don't expect ford to bail you out!!

I do run one on my 01 but I waited until 100,000 miles to install it!! Get your mileage out of your truck before you install one of these things they have enough power!!

 

I was getting 12 mpg before I installed my SCMT, now I am getting 15 mpg. That is hand calc. after every fillup. I am pulling a trailer 95% of the time anywhere from 4,000lbs to 12,000lbs, my SCMT is set on High Performance and the truck runs about 900 degrees on the interstate at 75mph. I have seen 1000 degrees once going up a mountain, and I was realy pushing my truck.

Tim

 

Mobey...my experiences with the Pred. on my '04 are the exact opposite of your "friends".

And if your friend only loaded the pred. to run someone? Then yes, he probably did his truck a dis-service. Typically, he would not have allowed enough time / miles to elapse for the engine or transmission to relearn driving strategy.

I do agree with one concept of your argument. It you run mods and the mod creates the problem...then Ford should not have to drop the warranty dime for that given incident.

If you think they are harmless be my guest and run the heck out of one. But don't expect ford to bail you out!!

Now that we have your blessings to do what we what with our trucks and $$$...why don't you quit creating arguments about it. Same music, same dance, different day.

 

These are all well reasoned technical arguments, but . . . The simple fact of the matter is that tuners DO reduce the life expectency of an engine. Not because the new parameters are beyond the engines tolerances. It's human nature, not bad engineering that causes the reduced life. You can tell me all you want about better fuel mileage, how it shifts better, and the towing is smoother, but we all know the real reason you put in that tuner was to go faster. That new horsepower is just to tempting and you get on it alot more. That's where the reduced engine life comes in. Now I'm just sayin' . . .

 

Sorry but I have to disagree. Talk to any reputable company, shop, or experienced owner and they'll instruct you it's pretty much mandatory to get gauges before adding a fuel/timing box. If they didn't push EGTs up and present a real threat to creating serious damage under the right set of conditions guages wouldn't even be a player, they'd be for looks instead of function. Also, many (depending on how much they up-power) are also forced to go 4" exhaust, cool air intakes etc, again, solely because EGT concerns based on more fuel and/or more timing from aftermarket devices.

Based on my Cummins experinece even with just an Edge EZ on timing only setting (i.e. no extra fuel) I saw (though oil analysis) higher wear metals and experienced engine knock at times while towing. I also ended up experincing 2 blown headgaskets over the course of 2 years directly because of the box (my opinion). When you tweak the timing and cause the fuel to detonate when boxes typically move the injection event to you can create extreme pressures within the cylinder, depending on time and duration this can cause headgaskets to grenade. What's interesting is this is fairly independent of boost level.

It's not all doom and gloom, you can run these tuners fairly safely, especially if you don't tow heavy, but there's no question they shorten the life of the drivetrain. Yes, for some that may be to a degree that never manifests itself at a noticable level but the fact is more fuel being injected over a given distance means you've used a bit more of your engines finite life than you would've otherwise.