I am in the market for a supercharger for my V10. I know that this has been covered in the past but I don’t like any of the common units available on the market. The biggest thing is that only Vortec offers a intercooler and but it’s for a centrifugal unit. I will be using my truck for everything from daily diving duties, to trailer puller/camper hauler, light off-roading, and even a little drag racing on test and tune nights. I want a intercooler for the additional power and peace of mind and I believe that centrifugal units are inappropriate for a big heavy 4x4. But the root and screw manufactures don’t have intercoolers. I was thinking about taking a lighting unit or a Holley Thunder and, after I learn how to weld cast aluminum, adapting one to my engine. Are there any other ideals out there?

 

I run an intercooled Vortech supercharger on my 5.4l, am quite happy with it.
I have it geared so that it is providing boost from idle...

I was thinking about a twin screw superchager, however my vehicle gets used in very hot weather, and the performance benefits over naturally aspiration are minimal when the weather is hot.
Hence the requirement for an intercooler.
Also (and I don't want to tout about centrifugal superchargers to much), but they provide much less stress on driveline components compared to a similar twin screw or roots style supercharger.

I was seriously thinking about fabricating my inlet manifold so it has water jackets surrounding it, connecting this up to a small radiator, so it effectively acts as an intercooler.
I have seen one other engine running this, and I found it quite impressive, however I did not have any space in the engine bay.

I am still quite happy with the setup, even with the so called "laggy" centrifugal supercharger, my engine makes more torque at 1000rpms, than a standard 3V 5.4l does at its peak.

 

Thanks for the reply. When you say you have geared to provide boost form idle are you saying you have the car geared (ie: trans, rear gear) or are you saying that you used smaller pulleys to spool the supercharger faster. I’m also guessing that you are referring to the 5.4 in your Falcon (super cool car by the way). My F350 has to carry a slide-in camper and pull a car trailer with my mustang II racecar. I’m looking for a major boost in low end torque. As soon as I find lockers for my truck I will be swapping in a set of 4.30s and that should make a difference, but you have to realize I grew up with big block trucks. The old 390s and 460s that I had would shame the v10 in the pulling department. I need a more around the cursing speeds, 1500 to 2500 RPMs in overdrive. And I have the same issue with the weather, Living in southern Florida. Big, I really do appreciate your advice. I’m just worried that I may spend 6K on a supercharge and still won’t be satisfied.

 

When I say "geared" to provide boost from idle, I increased the diametre of the drive pulley by 33%, I also increased idle speed to 900rpms.
It is making around 3psi then at idle.
My car is not designed as a pulling machine however, it was built purely for high speed.

If low down torque is what you want, then a twin screw type supercharger would be preferrable, however I know of people that don't find much improvement in performance in hot weather with a twin screw.
There are a couple of people running twin screw superchargers on thier V10's on here, jopefully they will chime in with thier thoughts.

What are the prices like for superchargers over there?
Is a twin screw similar to a centrifugal with intercooler?

BTW, What year V10 is it?
In my experience, V10's are quite impressive pulling machines. But the 3.73's certianly don't help. A reasonably good and cheap improvement for power for them is getting a redesigned Y pipe. The stock one is rediculous.

 

I think the 500 HP GT40 had a intercooler made for between the super and the intake manifold. It seems it would have had to have been a water cooled variety. If you'd opt for the centrifical blower, I think a diesel intercooler would more than handle the air demands for the v10.
Good luck.
Tony

 

Water/meth injection is something else to look into for the roots/twinscrews that do not come with an intercooler.

Of course, you could always turbo it. Thats what I would do


Marlon

 

I run a Vortech on my rig and tow/haul with it as well as hit the drag strip from time to time, and it performs very well. I have it pulley'd down so it makes boost at lower RPM's and even some between 1/2 and 3/4 throttle.
I also run an intercooler from a 99+ Powerstroke Diesel (PSD). I think that intercooler would damn near bolt right up to your rig with minimal problems. The PSD intercooler has proven to cool the best over many of the aftermarket air to air intercoolers, which is good when driving in hot weather. These intercoolers are very inexpensive (used) as well. I've seen many on ebay go for around $200. I got lucky with mine and got it for $140 shipped to my door.

 

Thanks everybody for replying to my question. Sorry it took me so long to get back to it.

Big, I’ve seen your answerers on a bunch of other forums and it seems you are very knowledgeable. If you don’t mine I’d like to get in contact with you with any other questions that may come up after I do the install. Like I said, I load my truck pretty good and live in south FL so I have to have an intercooler. The prices around here are 3 to 4 thousand for most kits but the Vortech is 6 because of its extra water-to-air intercooler. It’s going on my 01 F350 reg cab 4x4. I would’ve changed out my gears a long time ago but I’ve been looking for lockers (check out my other forums) and don’t want to do the work installing them twice. As for the Y pipe, I didn’t own the truck for 24 hours until I had it in the muffler shop. It made a big difference in over all power but it also killed some of my low end. I guess that’s why Ford did it. More backpressure equals more toque, right?!?

Tony the GT, Cobra, Lighting, and Holley units all use water-to-air intercoolers placed in between the supercharger and intake. They are all very efficient with ether root or screw units and I think it’s a shame that Ford or anybody else won’t make a version for the V10. That is the reason I’ve been thinking about adapting one to my truck. The Lighting or Holley units could work considering that a V10 is basically a 2V 5.4L with two more cylinders. Just have to refine my welding skills and learn how to fab with cast aluminum though. I’m an experienced wrench but I haven’t opened up a Mod motor yet and was hoping that somebody had done this already.

Fredman, I have considered water/meth injection but that would be just one more thing to keep up with. I may still use it, or a small hit of NO2, but it would be to supplement an intercooler instead of replacing it. And as for the turbo, it would be cool and make the ultimate power, but I’m worried about lag with a supercharger. A turbo wouldn’t even begin to spool at my cruising RPMs.

Blurry, I think you are the one that finally talked me into a Vortech. Even though you have a pushrod motor that’s more adapt at making torque at lower RPMs, it’s good to know there are people out there towing with them. I have been watching Ebay and think that I could piece together a system for the fraction of the cost of a new one. I’ll use the same supercharger unit that Vortech uses in their kits and mount it on the passenger side of the engine. Run it though a diesel intercooler and into the engine. I’ll make the appropriate fuel upgrades and talk to Superchips, which is only a short trip from the house, about reprogramming the engine controls.

Any input from anybody about this plan would be appreciated. Again guys thanks for the info, and I’m sorry about such a long post. This is just the way my brain works and I got to get it out.

 

I know you probably won't seriously consider a turbo. But turbo lag is mostly a myth that has been blown way out of porportion by people over the ages that have had no experience with turbos at all. Most of the time they confuse "turbo lag" with "boost thresh hold". But thats another subject for another thread.

Its true that to make maximum power, you need a big turbo, and with a big turbo, you get lag. But, on most street vehicles you can get by with a much smaller turbo and still make great power, but not loose torque.

I can make 4-5 psi in my truck cruising down the highway at 1700 RPMs in overdrive. Give it a little more gas and unlock the torque converter, it bumps up to about 2500 RPMs and i'm looking at 10 psi, which is max boost for me right now, still in overdrive. I think thats pretty much not possible with a centi supercharger, and its pretty much about what you get with a roots or twinscrew at 1700 RPMs. I don't really know much about either though, so I could be wrong.

Anyway, I'm not trying to push you towards a turbo in anyway, since you would have to build it all yourself. I just thought I would share a little info here. I think you will be very pleased with a well setup Vortech with the proper pulley and intercooler, and tune. The tuning is of utmost importance. Good luck on finding what you are looking for, and keep us informed.

Marlon

 

More backpressure equals more toque, right?!?
To certain extent, yes it does.
It has to be a well designed system, as the fluctuations in back pressure can cause it to "extradite" exhaust gases better.
As the exhaust valve opens, a pulse of exhaust air will be sent out.
Once the exhaust gases head up the exhaust, when they hit a constrained section, or a larger section of the pipe, a pulse will be sent back up the pipe towards the engine, when this gets to the exhaust valve, the pulse is then sent out the exhaust again, this will continue, until the energy is dissapated.
You can adjust the lenth, size of the pipe, posistions of any restrictions or larger sections (mufflers etc.) so that the pulse is just bouncing off the exhaust valve when the exhaust valve opens. This can significantly improve the ability of an engine to get rid of its exhaust gases.

This is why putting a larger exhaust on a Honda quite often defeats the point, as Hondas generally use this trick a lot to help them get such a large amount of power out of a small engine.
Putting a larger diameter exhaust can often kill power on those type of engines.

Hope that helps, and I am always willing to field any questions about your project.

 

An intercooled turbo set up would be the ideal setup....a little more work to fab up, but it's still the way to go. If the components are sized correctly, then boost will spool up fast. I'm actually pulling the blower off this winter to make room for a turbo set up on my rig....should be lots of fun!

However, I wouldn't want to unlock a converter while towing...that just creates more heat and shortens the life of the tranny.

 

Actually, not always.

Intercoolers can become "heat soaked" whereas they get so hot, the aluminum intercooler retains enough heat to suddenly become an "interheater", heating the air going through it rather than cooling it. This effect is pronounced when you have high speed boosted "road rushes", then have to slow down, and sit in slower moving traffic.

Often drag racers suffer this as well, because the 12 second run heats the intercooler to the point where it's no longer effective somewhere after the middle of the run. A lot of things affect this of course, but you get the idea.

I ran my old dodge twin-turbo stroker pickup without a traditional intercooler. Instead, a volvo aluminum intercooler was brazed into a very large alumimum plenum which the air coming through the throttle bodies flowed through the fins. And the inlet and outlet of the intercooler was fed.... get ready.... radiator fluid from the cooling system!

Cooling systems sit at 180 degrees... high boost situations can result in 300+ degree air temps.... so the cooling system (which has to be enlarged) cools the intake charge not necessary to "ideal", but enough that you can tune the EFI appropriately. At colder intake charge temps, the cooling system then heats the air. But you're not under high boost at that time so it's "okay" depending on your definition of okay.

I found it to work really well. And, tuning the EFI was easy as the air temps once the cooling system warmed up was pretty darn consistant. One less wildly swinging variable to compensate for with a "litttle of this and that" EFI system.

Anyway, just a wild idea I tried, that worked.

 

frederic, I've done several data log runs with mine and the only time it "retains" the heat is at a stop, but this was for an extenteded period of time. As soon as I started moving, the ACT's went right back down. At the track, the air charge temps got down as low as 140* at WOT with temps in the mid 80's. Without it, my temps 210-230.
I can see heat soaking being a problem, but only if the intercooler isn't properly sized for the application. The PSD intercooler has a much larger contact surface than many of the aftermarket intercoolers I've seen, and that makes a difference. There are many others that currently use the PSD intercooler, and they have noticed their discharge temps to be lower than other intercooled applications.
This is just from my personal experience, so I don't consider this info to be the "end all be all". For datalogging/scanning I used EASE Diagnostics which sends engine/tranny information to my laptop, and an FJO wideband 02 to monitor A/F ratios. I also use SCT software for tuning.

 

Don't mind me Blurry... I saw a generalization, and I'm genetically predetermined to play devil's advocate. I wasn't trying to be a ***** or embarrass anyone. I just see a lot of generalizations that could in theory steer people still at the beginning of the learning curve taking such a comment as a fact, and building a system around it.

This is a serious tactic that import performance parts distributors use as well as those companies that sell electric "turbo fans".

Anyway, that being said, I've applied forced induction to several vehicles that I've owned (or built), as well as helped several friends with their projects. So, maybe about 12 vehicles by now. But I am by no means an expert, or anything even close to it.

And you're right about frontal area with an intercooler... that is a key aspect to configuring an air to air intercooling system, however the powerstroke intecooler is difficult to fit into some vehicles. Also, it doesn't flow as nicely as some of the aftermarket units, but I guess the tradeoff is it's sheer size. I have one that I've transfered from project to project and it's likely to find a home on my TT crewcab once that engine is finished and installed.

I just really wanted to share the cooling system intercooling method because I whimsically tried it, and was very pleased. But I was having trouble with keeping the intake charge down in a consistant manner, because the vehicle was a 75 Dodge D200 extended cab, and most of that truck's post-turbocharging live was spent hitched to a heavy trailer, hauling everything from "toy" cars to cinderblocks. So under most circumstances, i had lots of boost and tremendous heat, and amazingly enough I heatsoaked the PS intercooler quite a bit. But, I was "abusing" the truck playing with the EFI system trying to tweak it further.

 

No problem, I understand where you're coming from with that.

I was actually looking into one of those electric turbo fans...dem thangs are da bomb.