I pulled the hood and radiator on my F1 this evening then cut the belts and attmpted to turn the engine over with a breaker bar. No luck but the pulley to crank bolt is tighter now. I was afraid that I was going break the bolt off in the crank so I stopped.

Next I pulled the spark plugs in the two forward cylinders on the driver's side and poured som Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders. The oil I poured into the front cylinder came out of what is left of the exhaust pipe on the driver's side of the engine. The Oil I poured into the second cylinder went somewhere inside the engine, I just have no idea where. It did not make it's way out of the lower radiator hose for that side of the enige which I viewed as a positive.

Queston - When pouring oil into the cylinders, should the oil be disappearing like this? Am I doing something wrong. This is the first time I've ever tried to unfreeze an old motor like this. Is it time to punt and find an engine that turns? Suggestions?? Other ideas??

Drain plug was mising from the front of the radiator which I am hoping means the engine was drained when it was parked. Goose neck on the driver's side is broken. The bolt ear towards the fron of the engine is cracked. Not sure if this is freeze damage but I don't think so. Anything to look for that would tell me if the enigne is toast??

 

Carl, stuck engine means short life when you unstick it, or rebuild time. Unless you luck out and and only a valve or two is stuck, your best best is to yank it.

That said, I've had luck...and you have to have patience...by loading the cyliders with deisel, letting it soak, and trying every so often. ALso heard good things about straight vinegar...seems vinegar acts as a rust desolver, but has no lubricat6ing qualities...dunno, only what I've been told.

Main thing is if your hope is to get it running and have some fun with it, take it slow...don't try to undo in a day what nature spent 30+ years freezing up.

 

Might add...get a battery hooked up to it..you will snap the bolt off in the crank if you keep trying.

 

I could not agree more with Mike; people are too often hasty and want to hear that baby run. A lot of damage is done with a short run. Do it right and pull the engine, or at least the heads.

To answer your question, if the MMO is disappearing, that means the rings aren't holding it in, which can mean they are worn, or there is a hole in a piston. I wouldn't read anything into it. Is this the engine that had no dipstick?? What are the chances it's going to fire off and purr??

I would not use the starter to turn it, if you must. Put it in gear and rock it, if that doesn't do it you really need to pull it. Horror stories abound about stuck pistons.

 

I have no illusions about thing firing up and running. And yes, this is the enigne with no dipstick. It's been sitting since 1969. My thoughts were that I might be able to save myself some piston smashing if I could get it to turn before pulling it and tearing it down. When the oil started disappearing, I became concerned and stopped to ask for guidance from the "FTE Council of Wisdom and Other Asssorted Things" (i.e. - you guys and everyone else here who knows what they are doing).

Mike - Starter is probably an even bigger lost cause than the engine so I don't think that's going to work.

Not sure why I didn't think to put it in gear and try rocking the truck but I didn't. One problem I'm going to have is getting ti in gear but that may be easier and cheaper than a new starter. I just don't know if it's barely hung up or if there is rust that has welded the ring to the cylinders.

When using diesel of Kero, do you just fill up the cylinders (this is what I imagine) or do you fill up the entire engine (Seems extreme)?

 

Could the oil disappearing mean that it is escaping through an open valve. I'm assuming the oil from cylinder #1 was coming out of the exhaust because the exhaust vavle is open in that cylinder. Correct??

 

Yeah, the oil out the exhaust pipe came from the exhaust valve being open - just happened to be in that position. The second cylinder might just be at bottom which would take a lot of fluid or might be slipping past the rings as Ross said.

Incidently, the two forward cylinders on the driver's side are #'s 5 and 6.

14 more bolts will take off the entire front sheetmetal then it's easy to lift the engine out. One of my scrap flatheads here had the rings rusted to the bore. I had to break the pistons apart to get them out. I also sheared off the teeth of the fiber cam gear trying to turn it over. No amount of oil of any kind would have loosened that engine. You don't know what you've got until you pull it.

 

Hope i'm not butting in here, three years ago I rebuilt a Hercules Diesel that was in a 47 Cletrack. That engine was hopelessly frozen too and in all 4 cylinders. I could not get it moving with the head on it, so I pulled the head and oil pan off. I was also able to get the crankshaft lifted out of the rods. (don't know if that will be possible on the flattie) Keep in mind here that I absolutly had to save the pistons as there is no such thing anymore, but I could get new sleeves. I scraped as much rust as I could get to out of the cylinders and poured about a quart of WD-40 into the cylinders. Then I bolted a Snap-On bar puller accross the head bolt holes to center on each cylinder. I cut a plate out of 3/4 inch stock to drop onto the piston so I could push on it from above with the pressure screw. I was able to get all four of them moving that way and once they would move it's just a matter of moving them up and down untill they loosen up enough to come out. ( I could also push from the bottom on the rods in the same manner) The oil I would use today I would get from the MAC guy, Its called Howes Lubricator. But your mystery oil is a winner too.

Hope you get em goin

Ken

 

If you have not, pull off the starter to make sure that it's pinion is not interfering with the ring gear on the flywheel. I would pull all the plugs, oil all cylinders with a light oil, and with the truck in low gear or reverse, pull or push the truck with another truck on a surface like dry asphalt where you can get some friction on the tires.

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Will move on it again this evening. I managed to get the truck into third gear last night just screwing around so it looks like the tranny isn't completely frozen. With a little luck, I wil be able to get it back into neutral as well. We'll see tonight.

Will oil all of the cylinders and pull the starter.

BTW - Both water pumps, the fan, and the generator spin "Semi-freely" with the belts removed. I took this as a promising sign.

 

3rd gear is better to have it in if you succeed in getting it loose. It won't damage the trans gears or possibly a case like first gear would. Take a wire coat hangar and straighten it and mark where the oil level is now. Don't force it down in the tube, just gently push it in. Put the kero or marvel mystery in the cyls. Now pull out the coat hangar and see if the level is up. If so, it's going by a valve. It will leak by the rings also, but not fast enough to see a quick rise in the oil level, unless the rings are broken on a piston and chunks are missing. If that's the case, you'll be pulling it out anyway.
It's always fun to see if you can get it to run, but on a flathead, 9 times out of 10, it's off to the machine shop for a rebuild. I've spent lots of wasted time trying. Hey! Why not? If you're not on a schedule, try it. If you are, yank it and rip it down.

my 2 cents or so............

Barry

50 F-1

 

Thanks for the suggestion Barry. I will try the coat hanger. Wife has named the truck "Bubba" so the coat hanger dipstick is only fitting. I'm off to pick up the Marvel Mystery Oil (BTW - what's the mystery?? - hmmmm)

Wasn't really going to try to get it to run thoguh you guys are getting me to think about at lest trying now. I was just trying to avoid having to smash a few pistons before hauling it to the machine shop.

 

Unless the assenger side head is supposed to have a monster chunk of metal pushed up about 1/8" between the first and second cylinders. I think I have a problem. I don't think it's supposed to be like that.

Not sure why it took so long to notice it becasue it's there plain as day and we haven't had a big freeze here in Houston since I brought it home about a month ago. I'll try yo put a picture in my gallery.

Anyhow, this should pretty well kill all chances of getting it to run before tearing it down. With the head like it is, I suspect the block is toast as well but I will tear it down to verify. Thanks for everyone's help on how best to get it freed up. I'm still going to let it sit for a while with the mystery oil to see if it will free up before pulling the engine.

 

Ouch! Looks like it got very hot or very cold. I'd guess hot in your part of the country. I noticed that the gooseneck on the front of that head (for the upper radiator hose) is also cracked; likely happened at the same time. There is also a head bolt missing nearby. With heads that rusty, you are fortunate to have head bolts rather than head studs.

 

Carl, I once had a 390ci that had rusted itself together. I couldn't make any headway with soaking it, rocking it, prying on it, etc. I determined what cylinder it was and pulled the head off that side of the engine. I cut a chunk of 2x4 to fit on top of the piston and wrapped a chain around the engine, then I placed a bottle jack between the chain and the piston and applied pressure. I was able to move the piston down in the bore enough to clean up the cylinder wall. I put it all back together and drove that truck for a many a mile after that.
I was a broke teenager at the time and couldn't afford to go through the engine properly.
I know this probably won't help in your situation but keep it in mind, you never know
Good luck with the old flatty

Bobby