[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 01-Oct-01 AT 09:56 PM (EST)[/font][p]That is the question. In light of the tragic events of 9/11 what does the community think is the appro response? I can defend my position but would like to see what the community thinks.

I think a limited use of low yield Nukes is justifed.

98 F250LD 4X4
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I'm ready to make that place an ashtray! It would be one hell of a parking lot. We could have a good ole' fashioned tailgate party for the FTE. Nothing but miles of Fords parked on a large lot.
Actually, I would think right now that we should approach this situation in a manner of keeping our profile low. High profile could be a catalyst for further possible terroristic attacks on our soil. I would almost like to say let's back a separate remote force, (something like the northern alliance for example), and let them do the on ground dirty work while we do mega air support. Sounds good. Keeps our boys out of the direct mess. Easy for me to say.
I guess the best way is to do things strategically and hit him from others angles. Not just with the military. The way Bush is basically doing it. Keep the media in the dark a little bit also. No reason to broadcast our moves.
Basically, I feel that we should work our way up to the big guns. The threat of being capable of using them is just as powerful as the actual use. Plus, no telling what other countries in our alliance may have a change of ways after we smoke there neighbor. I may not be happy with one of my neighbors but it doesn't do much for the value of my house when a potential buyer sees a crator on the other side of my fence.

Jakegypsum // Ford fleet, soup to nuts.

 

Nukes would be great if we were the only ones who had them, but that opens up a whole new can of worms. We have powerful enough conventional weapons that we can use, like fuel air explosives. They are equal to a low yield nuke in destructive power with none of the political backlash. Save the nukes for a last resort Thank God that idiot Gore didn't get elected...

 

Thank God, Gore is not there, Amen.

The big power about Nukes is the potential to use them. I think UBL will not hesitate to use them if he can deliver them here. Which then raises the stakes on us as the World's SuperPower.
Threats are only good for so long before you need to back up the magnum you're carrying or to put it away for good.

A prolonged conventional campaign may kill as many as a short nuke attack and both may have the same political fallout.

98 F250LD 4X4
Slotted Rotors

 

Dan, I would agree with the nukes. This is going to be messy no matter how it is done. It would seem that tactical neutron bursts might be a decent option, it would get the job done without longterm devastation to the whole area, and our people would be less at risk. DF

 

Nukes are an option, but should only be used as a last resort. Even neutron bombs which only kill and do not destroy objects would cause us to lose many allies, and unfortunately in our modern world we cannot disreguard everybody else. We would lose all of our middle eastern support and much of our Asian backers as well. (Japan is, after all, the only nation to be hit by an atomic strike in wartime.) Even Europe today is being very cautious about military action beyond surgical strikes. Only Israel would back us for sure. Bin Laden may have nuclear weapons, but I doubt that even he is crazy enough to make the first strike. He doesn't have enough to destroy America as a nation, but we have enough to make the entire Middle East glow in the dark for eons to come. I think if he had them and/or wanted to use them, he would have by now. That is a level of conflict that leaves no real winner.

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 02-Oct-01 AT 07:36 AM (EST)[/font][p]I don't know that much about this. But is'nt there fallout to be worried about that could float on the atmosphere and poison us?
Or was that just an A-bomb thing?
Japan-I know we only had to explain things to them one time to get them to understand differently. Maybe that is what it takes in this situation. We've been having problems with the East for about 30 years that I can remember. I do believe it's time we put a stop to it one way or another. And if we eliminate the mid-East, no more problems.
~Tomohawk~
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http://diebinladendie.tripod.com

 

Yes. I am happy that Bush is in there.

Nukes as last resort, Yes.

Strategical strikes I agree with.

Bottom line, lets stragically hit there nukes! Just a thought.

Jakegypsum // Ford fleet, soup to nuts.

 

It appears that things may go differently then we can guess. Based on news reports, Busch is being very slow and methodical about getting UBL and his camps. Which means the use of Special Forces to target UBL. If Busch can get it done without the use of Nukes - that is great! At this time it appears that he is not going to go down the road of dumping tons of bombs on the country side. This is also very good.

Last I heard, UBL is holed up deep in an old Russian bunker with 3000 troops protecting him. That makes for a good story and I have no way of attesting to it's accuracy. Which then leads me back to the use of the Neutron bomb or a small Nuke depending on the bunker.

As far as fallout, that would not be a concern with the Neutron or a low yield Nuke.

Another point was made that UBL doesn't have enough Nukes to destory the USA. He didn't need any to destroy the Twin Towers and cripple our economy. He does not need to use Nukes if can shut down our economy with fear and strategic hits on us.

As far as our friends are concerned. I have the luxuary of not having to deal with them. Yes, popping a Nuke would create a backlash, but what a precedent it would set. You commit terrorist acts.... you get a Nuke deliverd to your doorstep.

I don't doubt that terrorist groups would try and hide in urban centers in an effort to prevent that. But then they are exposed and catchable.

Nukes are not to be casually dropped. But when the structure of the world is at stake (which I think it is here), then the hammer needs to be dropped on those that would bring chaos or turmoil to the world.



98 F250LD 4X4
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I understand that UBL is hiding in an old Russian built bunker. If that's so, the Russians should be able to supply plans for the layout of that bunker. We might be able to pick out any weak spots ie: ventilation, etc. Or some other info that would assist in destroying that bunker.

I, personally, don't think that's where he's hiding. It just deems to be too obvious, to me. Here's a guy who we couldn't locate for the last 5 years, and we expect him to hide in a place that we would expect him to go? I understand that we would have to eliminate that bunker as a possibility, but it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't there.

I would expect him to go someplace that we would bomb or even drop special forces into. Some place like China. I don't know what their border patrol is like, but money talks. He could hide there without the Chinese governmant even knowing about it.

When we nuked Japan, we dropped leaflets for some time before the bombing, letting people know what we were planing to do. Those that left town, lived. I have no problem doing the same in the mid east. At least we'd have a good supply of glass.

I'm sure that Bush and his team are gathering all the info they need too be sure that what ever they do works. I happy to see that we are now actively chasing this guy, and others like him, down. I don't think we need to bring him to justice. I think he needs to be killed.

I also think an example needs to be made here: If you attack America, its citizens, it intrests, or its allies, you will be attacked in reply with overwelming force. This also applies to you, your supporters, your followers, and governments who support you.

I'll get off my soap box now.

 

Did you see the News? The Russians are handing him weapons to fight us with. They are giving them to the Isrealites also.
This is fixin to get ugly.
~Tomohawk~
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http://diebinladendie.tripod.com

 

I have no doubt that it could get ugly. I think that Bush is preparing for that. When we do it hit, I think it will be with maximum impact and effect.

98 F250LD 4X4
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I have spent long hours pondering what course our response to the events of 9/11 should take and there are no easy answers. If you study the history of Afganistan and it's people you will find that they aren't easily intimidated. Their country is in ruins from years of war and famine and they basically have nothing to lose. It is my humble opinion that we cannot acomplish our mission with conventional warfare. Airstrikes will not work as their is nothing left to destroy. They are so well dug into the rocks that bombs would cause minimal loss of life to the persons causing the trouble. Conventional ground warfare will be equally ineffective because they are so scattered and well fortified. Short of nuclear annihlation, i.e. killing them all, I see only one possibility for success.
Lets get down to their level. Let's take 50,000 Marines and break them into 10 man death squads, dress em up like Talibans or better yet in burquas, put em in beat up Toyo and Mazda pickups and infiltrate the ranks of the bad guys. Give em air support and communications and let them ride around and reak havok from all sides. Catch 5,000 locals protesting and burning old glory, call in the Damn-Damn and walah, 5,000 less radicals. Be everywhere and nowhere if you know what I mean. Short of killing them all I think this is our best option. Turmoil, chaos, confusion, parinoia, death and destruction from all sides. Just the view from my saddle. Whatdaya think?

 

Feat, I like it. And I think you are correct in saying, these people have nothing left to loose. The only thing, is during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, the Afghani's did not take any prisoners, and do not believe in the concept of POW's. So we have to realize, it's all or nothing.

 

i dont think its a good idea, because the majority of the people that live there are not terrorists, theyre prisoners of the government, the government disarmed them too, so they can do nothing about it.

i hate the fact that WE yes the united states feeds thier entire country, if your starving its your own gosh darnned fault for choosing to live in a desert