"And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her, for no man buyeth their merchandise anymore"
"And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and and oil, and and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, AND SLAVES, AND SOULS OF MEN."
Revelation 18:11&13 (from the Bible)

Kinda scary isn't it?

 

In nature, only the
>fittest get to reproduce, currently, this is not the case
>with humans.

Really? I will grant that part of your point is correct (ever see a babe with a total dip of a guy?). However your point is flawed on a number of different levels. For one, think of the buffalo. There were once millions and millions of them and now they are gone. My point is that when there are millions of them, there is more chance for breeding - both good dna and bad dna. And since humans only choose one spouse (or used to) that allowed more opportunity for all to breed.
>
>A clone should be no one's property, they are people, like
>anyone else. I'm sure we can clone an individual organ if
>we can a whole human.

If we can clone, then we are at a of level technology that does not require us to clone. We can create needed organs, etc, without stem cell research or the sacrificing of cloned humans. The only limiting factor is costs. The almighty dollar.
>
Why take
>the chance with some other dna combo when I like this one.
>I like the color, smell, personality and idiosyncrasies of
>the ones I have. We've been doing similar things for years.
> Breeding select animals together in hopes for as good as
>parents, then issuing papers. Cloning refines the process
>is all.

Now this was rich. Why take a chance? Well, if everybody liked the same thing, what diversity would there be? You just shot your idea of only the best breeding right out the window. And if everybody looked the same, smelt the same, and had the same dna, then the first cold or bad germ that came along would wipe out the whole race.

 

>"And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over
>her, for no man buyeth their merchandise anymore"
>"And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense,
>and wine, and and oil, and and fine flour, and wheat, and
>beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, AND SLAVES, AND
>SOULS OF MEN."
>Revelation 18:11&13 (from the Bible)
>
>Kinda scary isn't it?
>
>


I wouldn't worry too much over that, that is Babylon. (Babylonia was one of the first civilizations in the world. It formed around the region where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow in relatively parallel courses toward the Persian Gulf. Encarta® says Babylon (ancient city) (Babylonian Bâb-ilim or Babil, "gate of God"), one of the most important cities of the ancient world, whose location today is marked by a broad area of RUINS just east of the Euphrates River, 56 mi south of Baghdâd, Iraq.)

I kinda likend us to Rome. Either way though, I can't figure what part America had in the blood of the phrophets, and of saints.

 

>"And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over
>her, for no man buyeth their merchandise anymore"
>"And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense,
>and wine, and and oil, and and fine flour, and wheat, and
>beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, AND SLAVES, AND
>SOULS OF MEN."
>Revelation 18:11&13 (from the Bible)
>
>Kinda scary isn't it?
>
>


Huh? I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here. Please clarify.

 

Quote:
In an age where we pick our pets to match our carpet and haul one of God's creatures off to be surgically altered to be "furniture friendly", wouldn't it be easier on us and the animal to engineer one and then clone it?
************************************************** **********


Oh No, An infinity of Taco Bell Dogs.

I tried spelling Chihuhuah(SP)




Dennis

F.T.E. Assistant Administrator

http://www.clubfte.com/users/mil1ion/SigSanta.JPG
[font color=red]
"May The Spirit Of Christmas Be An Inspiration To You Throughout The Year"[/font]

[link:www.ford-trucks.com/guidelines.html|Club FTE]

[link: motorhaven.autoanything.com|How YOU Can Support This Site]

[link:www.clubfte.com/users/mil1ion/Mil1ion.html|My Website,"North Of The 49th"]

 

However your
>point is flawed on a number of different levels. For one,
>think of the buffalo. There were once millions and millions
>of them and now they are gone. My point is that when there
>are millions of them, there is more chance for breeding -
>both good dna and bad dna. And since humans only choose one
>spouse (or used to) that allowed more opportunity for all to
>breed.

Please mention the other levels that my point is flawed on, I appreciate it. In the mean time, I'll address this one. The notion that a proliferation of animal species could be an endorsement for the interbreeding of defective individuals is not connected. In history, when the population of an anmial species becomes too large, they suffer massive die-offs. So you say when there is millions, there is more bad dna being shared with good dna. This results in bad traits, whicn in turn lead to bad behavior or disease. These behaviors, being "bad", contribute to weakness, which gets them killed and eaten or just sick and die that way. I bet the buffalo the live today are some of the fastest and heartiest and smartest to ever live, wouldn't you agree?

Yep, the humans choosing only one spouse thing, kinda throws natural selection out the window.

 

>If we can clone, then we are at a of level technology that
>does not require us to clone. We can create needed organs,
>etc, without stem cell research or the sacrificing of cloned
>humans. The only limiting factor is costs. The almighty
>dollar.

I'm not sure this is a given, we can clone, but not cure a whole host of diseases and disabilities. If we could, healthcare would not cost so much, but demand is high, so price goes up. However, cloning has apparently reared its head, ugly or not, and is here now. I know what your saying though, I agree that a person should not be killed for harvesting. If we do that, then we as well have a lottery and take any of us now for harvesting. Absurd, isn't it?

>Now this was rich. Why take a chance? Well, if everybody
>liked the same thing, what diversity would there be? You
>just shot your idea of only the best breeding right out the
>window. And if everybody looked the same, smelt the same,
>and had the same dna, then the first cold or bad germ that
>came along would wipe out the whole race.

Why does everybody need to like the same thing? There should be millions of different clones available. If you clone everybody's pet now, how many would exist? No one says I have to clone my pets, I could do it the old fashioned way of selective breeding. Or, I could let it roam the neighborhood, picking up whatever genes it wants. What really is the diff?
Why should I "take a chance" on getting, say, a new puppy, and having it grow up too aggressive, or too lazy or too whatever? When I stand a better chance of getting what I want by cloning the one I got and love? I'm sure the dog would be flattered. Nobody is pushing it on me, nobody is telling me what to like, I work for the money...so, why not?

Why would a germ, say smallpox, come along and wipe us out if we were clones, if it can do it now? Whats the diff? Viral infections generally follow bell curves with respect to infection rates, in other words, they come, they peak, they disappear. All through out history. Besides, I think we can do pretty good job picking out good attributes. We've done it for 1000's of years.

 

Cloning Issues (source: http://www.netscrap.com/netscrap_detail.cfm?scrap_id=76)

Results of the Washington Post Style Invitational, in which readers
were asked to come up with intriguing questions to be considered by
President Clinton's special commission to study the moral and
practical effects of cloning:

Are the Pope and his clone both infallible? What if they disagree
about something?

Can you clone Alan Greenspan, or does it have to be LIVING tissue?

If Larry King clones himself and interviews himself on his show,
wouldn't that pretty much make nuclear war something we could all look
forward to?

If I have sex with my clone, will I go blind?

If the DNA from the bloody glove were cloned and produced a baby O.J.
Simpson, then could we maybe get an actual guilty verdict?

If Hare Krishnas start cloning themselves, how will the rest of us
find out?

If you cloned Henry IV, would he be Henry V or Henry IV Jr. or wait!--
Henry IV part II?

If Michael Jackson is cloned, is it against the law for him to play
with himself as a child?

Would there be a market for genetic "factory seconds" and
"irregulars"?

Could they clone Al Gore, or would he have to be grafted?

Is it possible to make a clone of Kate Moss and then attach the two
together to make a regular-sized person? Sure, she'd have two heads,
but that would still be way more normal.

Would it work if I binged and my clone purged?

Would it be ethical to dig up the remains of our founding fathers,
create clones from the bone cells, and place them in a theme park
called Clonial Williamsburg?

source: http://www.netscrap.com/netscrap_detail.cfm?scrap_id=76

 

When I read this story this morning on cnn.com I told my wife that, if true, this event will certainly go down in the history books as MAJOR. If not it has definitaly gotten quite a rise out of a lot of people. Everyone from Bible Thumpers to Humanists to "Whatever" has an opinion on this subject. Most appear to disagree with the concept of cloning because it calls into question the BIG QUESTIONS--> what is human? what is the soul? where do I come from? where do I go when I die? Does God exist? Initially I thought "I am opposed to total cloning but I favor partial cloning" (such as arms for amputees, eyes for the blind, ...). I realize now this is because of my fear of the BIG QUESTIONS.

If anything, the Raelians (sp?) have forced many many people into really thinking about this topic. If they did in fact clone a human being hold onto your hats (and if you are a religious person pray for little baby Eve)- if not, get ready because it will happen sooner than you think!

When on two wheels-
FXSTC
Mesa- AZ

2003 F-350 V10

 

FXSTC !


I 2nd that emotion.
We should perfect this a bit more before trying humans.
And it should be regulated by somebody

 

cloning of anything = wrong, trouble, disgusting

i too got that sick feeling when i heard about it. why don't people ever get any morals or common sense? i feel like the minority of the population.

 

>Why does everybody need to like the same thing? There
>should be millions of different clones available. If you
>clone everybody's pet now, how many would exist? No one
>says I have to clone my pets, I could do it the old
>fashioned way of selective breeding. Or, I could let it
>roam the neighborhood, picking up whatever genes it wants.
>What really is the diff?
>Why should I "take a chance" on getting, say, a new puppy,
>and having it grow up too aggressive, or too lazy or too
>whatever? When I stand a better chance of getting what I
>want by cloning the one I got and love? I'm sure the dog
>would be flattered. Nobody is pushing it on me, nobody is
>telling me what to like, I work for the money...so, why not?
>
>Why would a germ, say smallpox, come along and wipe us out
>if we were clones, if it can do it now? Whats the diff?
>Viral infections generally follow bell curves with respect
>to infection rates, in other words, they come, they peak,
>they disappear. All through out history. Besides, I think
>we can do pretty good job picking out good attributes.
>We've done it for 1000's of years.

I understand your points and they are well received.

Why should I "take a chance" on getting, say, a new puppy,
>and having it grow up too aggressive, or too lazy or too
>whatever?

Because that is the challenge of life. Yes, we manipulate DNA for crops and cattle, but when we start doing it to humans, then we become the next crop that is raised. Easily manipulated by politicians and those in power.

 

>Because that is the challenge of life. Yes, we manipulate
>DNA for crops and cattle, but when we start doing it to
>humans, then we become the next crop that is raised. Easily
>manipulated by politicians and those in power.

Yeah, I'm sure the politicians will have fun with this.

God compared us to a crop 2000 years ago, when Jesus was going on about removing the tares of field and casting them into the fire. And gathering the wheat into his barns.

Personally, I get enough challenge out of life, like right now, trying to get some thoughts out, w/o sticking my foot in my mouth.

All I know, right now, I would clone a pet if the odds were really good it would be healthy and not defective and it was affordable. I would even name him the same. Kinda like people do with jr. Shoot, King Henry had 8 generations of jr's. I like my pet's name, it falls off the tongue well, stuck in my head for 14 yrs, why look for another? (Be like going to a different truck dealer when what you really want is another Ford). If I want something different, I can always go to the pound were lots are put to sleep anyway.

The idea sounds good, but in reality, if I did sponsor a clone and it turned out disabled or disfigured, I would be looking for a tall bridge somewhere. I guess, as long as the odds were much better than natural reproduction, I could forgive myself.

Thanks for your thoughts, it helps me clarify my own.

 

I am there with ya Royce, it makes me sick to my stomach. The mother is an American 31 y/o... I also read there is another baby due next week and at least 3 more shortly afterwards....I can't think straight. The company CEO or whatever was on CNN last Friday talking about human immortality by using the clones we could do brain transplant and live forever...well what happens to the clones brain? Now we are going to get into a slippery road of clones rights and morality, which quite frankly our world is seriously lacking... Scary very scary! I knew this was going to happen as soon as Dolly the sheep was cloned.

 

I personnaly think it is wrong. I am quite suspicious though. That doctor claimed it was done, however no pictures or evidence ? Hmmm, kinda makes you wonder.