I live in a county without emmisions testing and I'd like to have my 90 F-150 5.0 EFI dueled out with straight pipes and no cats. The guy at the muffler shop said my engine wouldn't run right without the cats. Is he right? it doesn't seem like it makes a difference to me. Thank you.

 

First of all removal of converts is illegall. They are put in vehicles to do one thing, reduce the amount of polutents the vehicle produces. It burns some of the unburned fuel that goes through your vehicle. Vehicles are designed with some backpresure, removal of the converts can make the engine run bad.

But the bottom line, it is bad for the enviroment

Dave

 

Dave correct me if I'm wrong but I beleive that converter removal without replacement is a Federal offence, finable up to $50,000.00, and 5 years imprisionment. No shop in NC will touch this one.

That is why companies sell Cat. back systems.

John

 

Well, here in New Mexico, it is illegal for a shop to take it off, but not illegal for you not to have one. Mine was off my 87 F150 302EFI when I bought it half a year ago, it runs just fine.
It was replaced with dual exhausts that come out the side of the truck due to the dual gas tanks.

 

>Dave correct me if I'm wrong but
>I beleive that converter removal without
>replacement is a Federal offence, finable
>up to $50,000.00, and 5 years
>imprisionment. No shop in NC will
>touch this one.
>That is why companies sell Cat. back
>systems.
>John

John, My relatives told me that the person who took it off and the person who own the vehicle both get 10,000 fines in North Carolina.

 

In tennessee it is illegal for a shop to take them off, but is not illegal to drive without them. And as far as being bad for the environment: Small cars and trucks are the single SMALLEST contributor to air pollution in both rural AND urban US. I'd be much more worried about people cutting down rainforests than cutting off converters. But that's just me.

 

The EPA is a Federal organization. You are breaking Federal law by removing the cat/s. Just because the laws are not enforced does not change anything from a legal standpoint. But, who's going to call you on it?

 

Let me explain one misconception, IT IS ILLEGAL IN ALL 50 STATES TO REMOVE A CONVERTOR. This is federal law. Because states may not enforce or have state laws prohibiting the removal does not make it legal. Under federal law you can be fined and also put in jail for this offense.

So all of you who think that it is ok, it is not, it is against the law.

Dave

 

So tell me how much sense the law makes when, according to the same law, you cannot even replace your cat with a more efficient one, you cannot move the cat to another location and you cannot replace your single cat with two cats for a dual setup (seems like 2 cats would be better than 1)??? All of the above are subject to the same penalties and fines as the removal of your cat. And, would it hold up in court? Would why would anyone spend the time and energy to police it? Especially when you see cars, busses, and big rigs driving next to you spouting so much foul smoke that you cannot breathe? In reality, if everyone kept their cars in tune and spent the money to eliminate the oil burning; it would do more than any cat. It's an attempt to throw a solution at a symptom rather than resolving the problem, i.e. annual required tune ups (sniffer test), alternate fuels, more efficient engines.

My 2 cents worth,

Slik

 

Damn right slik! The laws requiring cats-like so many laws in our country today-are really there for one reason: to protect us from ourselves. And what good does it really do? Any vehicle over 7500 pounds doesn't have to pass any form of emmisions test at all. and going down the interstale i see (and smell) A LOT of vehicles in that catagory. Just something else to make some tree-hugging government big-wig feel like he made a difference in the world.

And dave, where are you getting your information about the fines and jailtime from? I'm not trying to be a smart-*** or nothing, I'd just like to read over the complete laws to see what their all about.

 

First of all, Slik, who does not have a clue as to what a convertor does, let me explain

A gasoline motor running at its best most effient only burns 68% of the fuel going into it, the rest goes out the tail pipe as polution. The job of the convertor is to burn as much as possible any unburned fuel that goes through it.

Second of all Jfotte, I never posted anything about jail time. I only explained the legal point of this. If you have already made your mind to remove this you should go to your shadetree mechanic that gives you your info and ask him. WE ARE ONLY TRYING TO HELP, But you guys made this into a bunch of BS

Dave

 

Oooooh!! Taking it kind of personal, aren't we?? A cat is a simple device to super heat the exhaust chamber to burn off the noxious exhaust fumes. It doesn't work to well when you start blowing oil through your exhaust though or if your cat is burned out.

Let's not start making dumb assumptions when this is a good forum to open up discussions on pros and cons of a particular device. Like I said, why don't we mass produce engines that are better than 68% efficient?? (And most are less than that, depending on when and how they were tuned!!!)

Slik

 

I noticed Dave danced around your question on where to get the info on fines, etc. So here it is:

(2) For model years 1975 - 1979, the tampering inspection shall determine whether the following emission control devices and systems, if installed on the motor vehicle by the manufacturer or importer have been tampered with:
(a) Catalytic converter
(b) Unvented fuel cap
(3) For model years 1980 and newer, the tampering inspection shall determine whether the following emission control devices and systems, if installed on the motor vehicle by the manufacturer or importer, have been tampered with, including all wiring of sensors/switches and vacuum lines to sensors/switches:
(a) Catalytic converter
(b) Unvented fuel cap
(c) Positive crankcase ventilation system (PCV)
(d) Thermostatic air cleaner (TAC)
(e) Exhaust gas recirculation system (EGR)
(f) Air pump and/or air injection system (AIS)
(g) Oxygen sensor (O2)
(h) Fuel evaporative emissions system (EVP)

Interim Tampering EnforcementPolicy ( Mobile Source Enforcement Policy No. 1A)

3) for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any manufacturer or dealer knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser."
Section 205 of the Act provides for a maximum civil penalty of $10,000 for any person who violates Section 203(a)(3).

I have not found, yet, anything that talks about penalties levied against owners for alterations and there is no law governing the modification of emissions devices for off road use only.

Slik

 

The above was taken from a search of EPA documents online concerning emissions equipment and a search of the Air Resource Board.

Slik

 

your dictation from the EPA is exactly what i wanted to see. plan on getting the work done next week. thanks.