Hello everyone, I need help on a problem with my conversion van and hoping some experts might have a clue on how to fix. I have a 1995 E-150 Econoline Conversion Van with a 5.8L motor and an Auto trans. Basically here are the symptoms:

• Engine knocks running 87 octane fuel. I have to run 89 or higher.
• When I first starting the vehicle in the morning when it is cold, it dies right after starting it. However, I’m able to start right back up with no problem and seems to run fine after.
• Engine is running really rich with a heavy fuel smell coming from the exhaust.

This is what I have done so far:

1. Complete tune-up replacing plugs, plug-wires, air filter, fuel filter, etc.

2. Had the induction cleaned by a shop.

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The vehicle seems to run just fine but don’t like the exhaust smell or the fact that I can’t run 87 octane fuel anymore. I’m guessing that I might have a sensor going bad or ??? Any help would greatly be appreciated.

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Thanks

 

hi, pull the codes. many big part stores do it free. then tell us what u get. the o2 sensor would be my first guess. if you have an exhaust leak near it it can freak out and run rich, but if your van is quiet it could have gone bad. the trouble codes will tell you most of the time. good luck. keep us informed of your progress.

 

I'd be looking for a vaccum leak too.

 

Any v8 I ever had knocked on 87 fuel. Its unfortunate, but you just have to run 89 fuel or perhaps buy an octane additive. As far as the cold starting, I have a 1995 conversion and I have the same symptom of starting and dying on the first start. I think it might be a vacuum problem, because when it does it, it sounds like it has trouble sucking in air. If you do figure it out, I'd like to know what it is.

 

Okay, here is how I got around the not wanting to start thing.. Crank the engine about 3 revolutions, then stop, then it will start by just touching the key. What spark plugs are you using (they need to be standard motorcraft)? Is the timing set correctly? Is the spark plug gap right?

 

Was out of town this week guys. But thanks for the reply's. I will be checking all of the above things this coming weekend. Didn't really think about a vacuum leak.

Thanks

 

You didn't say how many miles are on your engine...
My '98 5.4L engine, with 75K miles, had been pinging for the last month, or so. I remedied several minor faults. The pinging is gone. I have not changed fuel type, unless the refiners did it for me. (Don't laugh. In California, the fuel is different in the winter than in the summer.) I still use the lowest octane rating available in California. I can't remember if it's 87 or 89.
The only remedy that makes any sense to me, toward the repair of the pinging, is that I cleaned the MAF sensor. My reasoning is that, though the MAF sensor was not visibly dirty, it must have been dirty enough to fool the computer into causing the engine to run too lean. The old spark plugs seemed to corroborate this.
You can search for details on cleaning your MAF, here and in Google. The MAF is extremely delicate, so be careful. I used CRC QD Electronic Parts Cleaner, available at Autozone, as recommended by others; it leaves no residue.
If anyone cares to support or rebut my theory, I'd like to hear it.

 

Auztone,

Here is a simple item to check that has a high likelyhood of causing the richness problem.

The fuel pressure regulator. Open the dog house and it will be on the rear end of the driver's side of the engine, just above the valve cover. With the engine cold, pull off the vacum hose on the top of the regulator and smell the end of the vacum hose for the odor of gas. Also, you can place a rag around the base of the regulator and turn the engine over a few times. If the regulator is bad gas will shoot out of the vacum port (where the hose was) which is why you do this test with a cold engine and outside of your garrage.

You may get a code 173 indicating a rich condition, which you already knew. What happens when the regulator diaphram developes a leak is that gasolene will be sucked into the vacum line and provide an unmetered supply of raw fuel into the intake while at the same time, the fuel pressure from the pump is running unregulated into the fuel rail. Double whammy. It will run so rich that you smell raw gas everytime you stop and there will be a heavy black build up in the tail pipe in a very short period of time.

There are several other things that might cause your problem but you can check this in about 5 minutes for free. Repair is simple, replace the regulator.

I replaced a lot of parts before I found this. My van needed the service anyway, but still I could have fixed it for the cost of the regulator.

Gene

 

Awesome tip, Gene. I wonder if that happens on 5.4L engines? I believe I have two regulators; one for each fuel rail; i.e., one for each of the two banks of the V8 engine. Well, I don't have a richness problem now, but that is a "gotcha" to keep in mind.

 

Hi JohnPeter,

I would guess that any fuel injected engine with a vacum diaphram type regulator would be subject to having the same problem. I don't know if the 5.4 has a regulator on each rail or not. I haven't had any experience with any of the modular engines yet. Mine is a '94 with a 5.8.

I had the same problem as Auztone reported plus the engine would stall at idle. I took the approach of catching up all of the routine maintainance items and then began checking all the other things that might cause the problem.

So the old girl got plugs, plug wires, cap rotor, O2 sensor, fuel filter, serviced the K & N air filter and checked for vacum leaks and changed the oil just for fun. All Motorcraft parts. Still had the problem.

Then I kicked it up a notch to the othet things that I could justify replacing at 90,000 miles that could cause the stall at idle or the rich condition. Next to go was the MAP sensor and the Idle Air Controller. I also ran scanned for codes with a Snap-On scanner which is where I discovered the code 173 which tells me that it is running rich!!!

The most useful thing that I did was do a search of the archives here at the Ford Forum on "code 173" and found a post suggesting the fuel pressure regulator. It hit me like a baseball bat. I shouted that's it and took off to the garrage to check the regulator. What a relief to see gas squirting out of the vacum port. A quick trip to NAPA for the only non Motorcraft part that I used on it. It took all of 5 minutes to install it and now it runs like a top again.

I hadn't heard of cleaning the MAP sensor before, I'll keep that in mind for the next 100,000 miles.

Gene

 

That's what you call a "Eureka moment," regarding your fuel pressure regulator.
Oh...that wasn't a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor. It was a MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. There must be a difference, though I can't expound on that.

 

Okay guys I check the fuel pressure regulator as per Gene’s instruction. I smelled fuel in the vacuum line but when I turned over the vehicle, no fuel came out of the regulator. So, I’m guessing that the regulator should be fine?


The next thing I did was remove and clean the MAF as JohnPeter did to help his pinging problem. Next I want to check the O2 sensor but need help locating the bugger! All help is greatly appreciated!


Thanks

 

I think your '95 should be just like my '94 as far as the O2 sensor location. It will be located in the exhaust system under the right front passenger's floor board. The exhaust wyes together there and there is a smaller diameter crossover pipe that is three or four inches long just forward of the wye. The O2 sensor is threaded into that small crossover pipe.

If your '95 is like mine, it only has one O2 sensor. It also doesn't have a MAF sensor, only a MAP sensor, which is located on the blower housing on the passenger's side of the engine compartment, not actually on the engine.

Latter models have both MAF and Map sensors.

If you have a fuel pressure test gauge, you may want to follow up the initial test of the fuel pressure regulator by testing the actual pressure getting to the rail. Spec is 38 psi if I recall correctly.

Gene

 

I once owned an '84 Mercury Topaz, which acquired a taste for gasoline. It was running rich, and eventually the cause was traced to a defective throttle position sensor. BTW, that car did not have fuel injection; it had a complex carburetor with feedback, and that eventually caused me to junk the car.

 

Auztone,

Did you check for any trouble codes that might be stored KOEO (Key ON Engine OFF) or any that are being generated as the engine runs in the KOER mode (Key ON Engine Running)?

The higher octane requirement could be caused by carbon build up in the combustion chambers possibly due to it running rich for a long time or it may be a timing issue. When you do the KOER test it will check the timing for you.

A few other things that could be causing it to run rich are the intake air temp sensor, the water temp sensor (the one that sends it's signal to the computer located on top of the engine about mid way back in the valley) the MAP sensor (let us know if yours has a MAF sensor, I don't think it does) the Idle Air Control, O2 sensor and the throttle position sensor. You can test the first two with a volt ohm meter. The Intake Air Temp sensor will probably be gunked up from running rich and in need of cleaning.

First check for codes in both modes and you may want to do the wiggle test too if no codes turn up. You just wiggle all of the connections to sensors while in the scan mode and if there are any faulty connections it will show up on a scanner. I can't remember if the check engine light will report problems found during the wiggle test or not, but you can check the codes using it, however it can be kind of tricky to count the three digit codes correctly. Sometimes you just have to read them repeatedly, writing them down each time and compare your results until they match a few times. If you don't have a Haynes manual or similar, you can get one at AutoZone to describe how to run the code check.

Gene