Girly Powered Effies.
More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 682
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From: Peoria, IL (more or less)
'Fenders,
Judging by what I've read in the past & present, you: 1) want more power & acceptable mileage; 2) it has to be reliable & long-lasting; 3) you aren't going Pro Stock racing any time soon; 4) it has to be reasonably inexpensive; 5) it has to be relatively lightweight. Given all these things, in your shoes, I'd consider the following options.
1) If you have to or want to keep the 302 block, I'd look at a 347 stroker kit & a set of AFR 185 cylinder heads. All the power you could ask for & decent mileage. Disadvantage: cost.
2) My preferred choice would be to swap the 302 for a 351W & give it a quality rebuild & the AFR heads, if budgets permit. A 351W would be considerably cheaper than the stroker kit & you're looking at a complete rebuild either way. It will drop right in place, too, although if you have 302 headers, they may or may not work.
3) An unusual alternative would be to swap in a 400. Before people start throwing things like rotten tomatoes at me, the 400 is basically an overgrown Cleveland & can be made to run astoundingly well with some thought & care. Getting decent compression can be an issue, but it can be done. 400s can be found for almost nothing, too. The 400 ** MIGHT ** work with your C4, if it's a pan-fill type. It will need a different bellhousing, though.
4) A mild 460 would be a good choice, and many people would question "Why bother with the 400 when you can just do a 460 for about the same amount of work?" At least in my area, 460s are no longer cheap or common. Also, I suspect it's overkill for your needs. 98% of rodders go just that one step too far. (of course, I'm very seriously considering a 460 myself, but I am going to bracket race it. Also, I'm kinda stoopid.)
Regards, Mike
Judging by what I've read in the past & present, you: 1) want more power & acceptable mileage; 2) it has to be reliable & long-lasting; 3) you aren't going Pro Stock racing any time soon; 4) it has to be reasonably inexpensive; 5) it has to be relatively lightweight. Given all these things, in your shoes, I'd consider the following options.
1) If you have to or want to keep the 302 block, I'd look at a 347 stroker kit & a set of AFR 185 cylinder heads. All the power you could ask for & decent mileage. Disadvantage: cost.
2) My preferred choice would be to swap the 302 for a 351W & give it a quality rebuild & the AFR heads, if budgets permit. A 351W would be considerably cheaper than the stroker kit & you're looking at a complete rebuild either way. It will drop right in place, too, although if you have 302 headers, they may or may not work.
3) An unusual alternative would be to swap in a 400. Before people start throwing things like rotten tomatoes at me, the 400 is basically an overgrown Cleveland & can be made to run astoundingly well with some thought & care. Getting decent compression can be an issue, but it can be done. 400s can be found for almost nothing, too. The 400 ** MIGHT ** work with your C4, if it's a pan-fill type. It will need a different bellhousing, though.
4) A mild 460 would be a good choice, and many people would question "Why bother with the 400 when you can just do a 460 for about the same amount of work?" At least in my area, 460s are no longer cheap or common. Also, I suspect it's overkill for your needs. 98% of rodders go just that one step too far. (of course, I'm very seriously considering a 460 myself, but I am going to bracket race it. Also, I'm kinda stoopid.)
Regards, Mike
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
'Fenders,
Judging by what I've read in the past & present, you: 1) want more power & acceptable mileage; 2) it has to be reliable & long-lasting; 3) you aren't going Pro Stock racing any time soon; 4) it has to be reasonably inexpensive; 5) it has to be relatively lightweight. Given all these things, in your shoes, I'd consider the following options.
Haven't seen you for awhile Mike. Yes all of the above are true. Probably do the stang first, then the Effie. The stang will see the dragstrip. I want high 12 ETs. No trailers allowed. The Effie is quite functional just as it is, but it's boring. The heads start fading at 4000 RPM. Truck will never be raced, pull a heavy trailer or a large load. Gonna get in trouble if I don't put some real miles on the truck before I tear it apart. Stang first for sure. Not to mention the stock Stangs E7 heads could find a new home on the truck for awhile. Believe or not, they are a big improvement over my current heads.
1) If you have to or want to keep the 302 block, I'd look at a 347 stroker kit & a set of AFR 185 cylinder heads. All the power you could ask for & decent mileage. Disadvantage: cost.
The 347 stroker is a great unresolved debate. The piston pin located deep in the oil ring land looks very flakey to me. I'd do a 331 stroker in a minute. Have you seen flow numbers for the e7 vs GT40Y vs AFR 165 vs AFR 185? HUGE differences. I'm leaning AFR 165, but the GT40 looks good on sale. I suspect the 185 is a bit much for a 302 in a heavy application, but probably not in a 347. Aluminum heads would be good on both engines. Effie is heavy, loaded 95 Stang is even heavier. That's why I am convinced 5.0 torque can work. 3500 pounds is 3500 pounds. Ain't driving the truck fast too often. Aerodynamics don't matter too much when you're playing around ripping the tires now and then.
2) My preferred choice would be to swap the 302 for a 351W & give it a quality rebuild & the AFR heads, if budgets permit. A 351W would be considerably cheaper than the stroker kit & you're looking at a complete rebuild either way. It will drop right in place, too, although if you have 302 headers, they may or may not work.
I've got a stock 351W. Great little engine. It bores me too. Real reason is the weight. 50 more pounds I don't really want. If I use a W block, and that is doubtful, it will be stroked. Then the C4 comes into question. Do a C6? More weight I don't want. The fuel mileage thing comes into play also. 393 strokers can be hard on gas. But oh do they run! Probably my favorite engine if gas were free.
3) An unusual alternative would be to swap in a 400. Before people start throwing things like rotten tomatoes at me, the 400 is basically an overgrown Cleveland & can be made to run astoundingly well with some thought & care. Getting decent compression can be an issue, but it can be done. 400s can be found for almost nothing, too. The 400 ** MIGHT ** work with your C4, if it's a pan-fill type. It will need a different bellhousing, though.
Another good motor that is too heavy for my situation.
4) A mild 460 would be a good choice, and many people would question "Why bother with the 400 when you can just do a 460 for about the same amount of work?" At least in my area, 460s are no longer cheap or common. Also, I suspect it's overkill for your needs. 98% of rodders go just that one step too far. (of course, I'm very seriously considering a 460 myself, but I am going to bracket race it. Also, I'm kinda stoopid.)
Another good motor, (heck I seem to like all the blue ones don't I?) Weight is a problem. I know big blocks can get good mpg. But my mileage varied, every single time.
For me, it's also kind of the challenge of doing more with less. Have you noticed that every ten years the OEM drops the V8 displacement 10%, and the HP and torque are now going up. I like my nostalgia as much as the next guy. But I think it's kinda cool a modern little motor will mop the floor with a car I thought was fast in the 70's. I thought performance died in 1972. Not so, and I'm glad. Now if they can just get the price down on modular motor aftermarket parts we'll be in good shape. Now you can throw some technology on your 460 and even the score, but will you be able to buy the fuel in a daily driver application? Don't you agree that's far from certain?
Regards, Mike
Judging by what I've read in the past & present, you: 1) want more power & acceptable mileage; 2) it has to be reliable & long-lasting; 3) you aren't going Pro Stock racing any time soon; 4) it has to be reasonably inexpensive; 5) it has to be relatively lightweight. Given all these things, in your shoes, I'd consider the following options.
Haven't seen you for awhile Mike. Yes all of the above are true. Probably do the stang first, then the Effie. The stang will see the dragstrip. I want high 12 ETs. No trailers allowed. The Effie is quite functional just as it is, but it's boring. The heads start fading at 4000 RPM. Truck will never be raced, pull a heavy trailer or a large load. Gonna get in trouble if I don't put some real miles on the truck before I tear it apart. Stang first for sure. Not to mention the stock Stangs E7 heads could find a new home on the truck for awhile. Believe or not, they are a big improvement over my current heads.
1) If you have to or want to keep the 302 block, I'd look at a 347 stroker kit & a set of AFR 185 cylinder heads. All the power you could ask for & decent mileage. Disadvantage: cost.
The 347 stroker is a great unresolved debate. The piston pin located deep in the oil ring land looks very flakey to me. I'd do a 331 stroker in a minute. Have you seen flow numbers for the e7 vs GT40Y vs AFR 165 vs AFR 185? HUGE differences. I'm leaning AFR 165, but the GT40 looks good on sale. I suspect the 185 is a bit much for a 302 in a heavy application, but probably not in a 347. Aluminum heads would be good on both engines. Effie is heavy, loaded 95 Stang is even heavier. That's why I am convinced 5.0 torque can work. 3500 pounds is 3500 pounds. Ain't driving the truck fast too often. Aerodynamics don't matter too much when you're playing around ripping the tires now and then.
2) My preferred choice would be to swap the 302 for a 351W & give it a quality rebuild & the AFR heads, if budgets permit. A 351W would be considerably cheaper than the stroker kit & you're looking at a complete rebuild either way. It will drop right in place, too, although if you have 302 headers, they may or may not work.
I've got a stock 351W. Great little engine. It bores me too. Real reason is the weight. 50 more pounds I don't really want. If I use a W block, and that is doubtful, it will be stroked. Then the C4 comes into question. Do a C6? More weight I don't want. The fuel mileage thing comes into play also. 393 strokers can be hard on gas. But oh do they run! Probably my favorite engine if gas were free.
3) An unusual alternative would be to swap in a 400. Before people start throwing things like rotten tomatoes at me, the 400 is basically an overgrown Cleveland & can be made to run astoundingly well with some thought & care. Getting decent compression can be an issue, but it can be done. 400s can be found for almost nothing, too. The 400 ** MIGHT ** work with your C4, if it's a pan-fill type. It will need a different bellhousing, though.
Another good motor that is too heavy for my situation.
4) A mild 460 would be a good choice, and many people would question "Why bother with the 400 when you can just do a 460 for about the same amount of work?" At least in my area, 460s are no longer cheap or common. Also, I suspect it's overkill for your needs. 98% of rodders go just that one step too far. (of course, I'm very seriously considering a 460 myself, but I am going to bracket race it. Also, I'm kinda stoopid.)
Another good motor, (heck I seem to like all the blue ones don't I?) Weight is a problem. I know big blocks can get good mpg. But my mileage varied, every single time.
For me, it's also kind of the challenge of doing more with less. Have you noticed that every ten years the OEM drops the V8 displacement 10%, and the HP and torque are now going up. I like my nostalgia as much as the next guy. But I think it's kinda cool a modern little motor will mop the floor with a car I thought was fast in the 70's. I thought performance died in 1972. Not so, and I'm glad. Now if they can just get the price down on modular motor aftermarket parts we'll be in good shape. Now you can throw some technology on your 460 and even the score, but will you be able to buy the fuel in a daily driver application? Don't you agree that's far from certain?
Regards, Mike
Last edited by fatfenders; Feb 26, 2005 at 07:46 PM.
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 59
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Fatfender, A lot of 347 strokers have custom pistons that do no have the pin in the oil rings. Ive built several 347s in the past few years and have never once ran into any oil usage problems, nor rod ratio problems. the key is to use a good company who can build good pistons, without raping you on pricing. Coast High Performance is my manufacturer of choice..theyre kits are affordable and great quality. My 354 stroker now has the pin in the oil ring, and Im not thrilled about it. sometime this year I will be replacing those with a new set of JE pistons. I hate loosing money on combo changes, lol.
Steve
Steve
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: Hastings NE
I would like to add two comments.
First of all, if the length of the 302 is a problem, take a look at the '94-'95 Mustang timing cover, water pump , pulleys and accessories. They will shorten things up by about two inches.
Also, with a Fuel injected 5.0, no one has talked much about supercharging. For less than $2000, you can increase the horsepower and torque by at least 40% and never touch the inside of the engine. It sounds expensive, but so are aftermaket heads, intakes, etc. And it is just as docile and driveable at low speeds as any stocker. I have a 6 psi Powerdyne on my '57 F100 and I love it. We took a vacation to Colorado last August in the '57 and the next weekend went to the local drag strip to play. By just bolting on a set of drag radials, turned a 13.55 and then drove it home. At highway speeds it feels like a big block and the throttle response is amazing.
We also have a '94 mustang 5.0 with a Kenne Bell, but has a higher price tag. The Kenne bell is a positive displacement supercharger and has instant boost. A real blast to drive. Tons of torque on the low end.
Just a thought
Randy
First of all, if the length of the 302 is a problem, take a look at the '94-'95 Mustang timing cover, water pump , pulleys and accessories. They will shorten things up by about two inches.
Also, with a Fuel injected 5.0, no one has talked much about supercharging. For less than $2000, you can increase the horsepower and torque by at least 40% and never touch the inside of the engine. It sounds expensive, but so are aftermaket heads, intakes, etc. And it is just as docile and driveable at low speeds as any stocker. I have a 6 psi Powerdyne on my '57 F100 and I love it. We took a vacation to Colorado last August in the '57 and the next weekend went to the local drag strip to play. By just bolting on a set of drag radials, turned a 13.55 and then drove it home. At highway speeds it feels like a big block and the throttle response is amazing.
We also have a '94 mustang 5.0 with a Kenne Bell, but has a higher price tag. The Kenne bell is a positive displacement supercharger and has instant boost. A real blast to drive. Tons of torque on the low end.
Just a thought
Randy
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,005
Likes: 2
From: Santa Clarita
fenders- This is only a suggestion. It seems like your partial to the 302. Save yourself some money and keep the motor. Get yourself a good cam, lifters maybe some roller rocker arms. Port the heads, Get a manifold and carb, (maybe you already have one)) Some nice flowing headers and mufflers. If that doesn't work, go the cheapest route and throw some Nitrous Oxide on that truck. That'll give you the kick your looking for. LOL... Take care.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Thanks guys, the thread is back heading in a construction direction.
Steve, I just don't know about the 347 yet. You're obviously more informed than I. I'm not telling you anything you don't know already. It has huge potential, and every once in a while one blows in a most spectacular fashion. We can probably agree you're running on the bleeding edge when you do that one. Play with fire, maybe you get burned, maybe not.
Randy
Stay tuned to the "charity auction" thread. We got a pretty cool last auction coming later today.
Lower
I'm kinda attached to the 302 block because I spent many many hours setting my truck up for. And a bigblock Volare combo is less than ideal. Also, I have been told many times I can't make any real power with that block. Sounds like a double dog dare.
We now enter phase 2. This is the part where a few people on the forum say "dayum, how'd he do that with a girly block". Won't happen tomorrow because I'm not made of money, but that's where I am headed. Just a little competitive spirit. I'm not hurting anybody here.
Steve, I just don't know about the 347 yet. You're obviously more informed than I. I'm not telling you anything you don't know already. It has huge potential, and every once in a while one blows in a most spectacular fashion. We can probably agree you're running on the bleeding edge when you do that one. Play with fire, maybe you get burned, maybe not.
Randy
Stay tuned to the "charity auction" thread. We got a pretty cool last auction coming later today.
Lower
I'm kinda attached to the 302 block because I spent many many hours setting my truck up for. And a bigblock Volare combo is less than ideal. Also, I have been told many times I can't make any real power with that block. Sounds like a double dog dare.
We now enter phase 2. This is the part where a few people on the forum say "dayum, how'd he do that with a girly block". Won't happen tomorrow because I'm not made of money, but that's where I am headed. Just a little competitive spirit. I'm not hurting anybody here.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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One thing I can say is the latemodel 302 block is very weak. I have busted a block with only 400 rwhp, but that was factored from several reasons. 1st is I used stock hardware to fasten the caps, second was I had no stud girdle, and 3rd and most important was detonation. My second block had a girdle, arp main studs, and I dyno tuned the motor so no detonation was present. Now the second motor made almost 600rwhp, but Ill be the frist to say that the motor would not last long with that hp. Also the car only weighed 2600lbs. The heavier weight of a truck would definitley put more strain on the motor, and it would be a grenade. Now I have a whole lot better rotating assembly, but still a stock block. I wish I had built a 393 or something instead, but the money was spent on this motor before the truck was even a thought. Im a frim beleiver in theres no replacement for displacement.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,005
Likes: 2
From: Santa Clarita
Wacky- Hate to blow your bubble about 302's. Its sound more to me your mechanic hasn't got a clue on how to putting a motor together to where it stays together . Maybe you should check out some of the AC Cobras running 289 and 302's that run on hard tracks at high RPM's for several hours, days, months at a time. They seem to hold up and even run for years on end. Several Mustangs and other Ford vehicles run 302's on the race track, circle tracks etc. They seem to be doing well also. Any engine with detonation, worn out parts, wrong parts, etc isn't going to last long. In your case, "there's no replacement for displacement" only means yours will make a louder boom. An engine is only as good as the person who puts it together.
Fatfenders - I'm with you on the dares. Now I'm at the point where I'm ready to show some these "boat anchor" supporters what girly power can do.(that oughta ruffle some hair in here
I belong to a Mustang club where these guys are running some strong 302's. They have a dyno day event once a year where guys pull their cars on a rack and see whose got what. I've seen quite a few pulling the mid and high 300 horses, and not much done to the engine. I ran the 351 W in one of the mustangs and they run real hard. I was really surprised at the torque and top end power of that motor
.
. Maybe you should check out some of the AC Cobras running 289 and 302's that run on hard tracks at high RPM's for several hours, days, months at a time. They seem to hold up and even run for years on end. Several Mustangs and other Ford vehicles run 302's on the race track, circle tracks etc. They seem to be doing well also. Any engine with detonation, worn out parts, wrong parts, etc isn't going to last long. In your case, "there's no replacement for displacement" only means yours will make a louder boom. An engine is only as good as the person who puts it together.Fatfenders - I'm with you on the dares. Now I'm at the point where I'm ready to show some these "boat anchor" supporters what girly power can do.(that oughta ruffle some hair in here
I belong to a Mustang club where these guys are running some strong 302's. They have a dyno day event once a year where guys pull their cars on a rack and see whose got what. I've seen quite a few pulling the mid and high 300 horses, and not much done to the engine. I ran the 351 W in one of the mustangs and they run real hard. I was really surprised at the torque and top end power of that motor .
Last edited by imlowr2; Feb 27, 2005 at 03:02 PM.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
One thing I can say is the latemodel 302 block is very weak. I have busted a block with only 400 rwhp,
Waky, your joking right? That's pretty respectable smallblock power at the crank, let alone the rear wheels. Did you call Ford and complain?
I've seen quite a few pulling the mid and high 300 horses, and not much done to the engine.
Lower
You may not have been aware of the mods, but I believe any 302/5.0 pulling high 300s is consideraby warmed over. At least I'm not aware of a production 5.0 that ever left Ford with near that much. I'm sure somebody here knows the facts. I understand your point though. It's not a rare occurrence anymore.
Waky, your joking right? That's pretty respectable smallblock power at the crank, let alone the rear wheels. Did you call Ford and complain?
I've seen quite a few pulling the mid and high 300 horses, and not much done to the engine.
Lower
You may not have been aware of the mods, but I believe any 302/5.0 pulling high 300s is consideraby warmed over. At least I'm not aware of a production 5.0 that ever left Ford with near that much. I'm sure somebody here knows the facts. I understand your point though. It's not a rare occurrence anymore.
Tuned
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 486
Likes: 66
From: South Carolina
[QUOTE=imlowr2]
Fatfenders - I'm with you on the dares. Now I'm at the point where I'm ready to show some these "boat anchor" supporters what girly power can do.(that oughta ruffle some hair in here :
I don't have any hair TO ruffle so I aint sceered.
Fatfenders - I'm with you on the dares. Now I'm at the point where I'm ready to show some these "boat anchor" supporters what girly power can do.(that oughta ruffle some hair in here :
I don't have any hair TO ruffle so I aint sceered.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
"I don't have any hair TO ruffle so I aint sceered."
Purple,
run and get AX right away, I want to help this poor 302 guy out. I think he must have a bad sway bar or something.
We ain't askeered either.
Purple,
run and get AX right away, I want to help this poor 302 guy out. I think he must have a bad sway bar or something.
We ain't askeered either.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: South Central MN
see 'fenders, lightweight, yet powerful...im sure our pickups dont weight anymore than that car(if you do it right), so you might have to get those wheelie bars, and accent them with another wonderful flame paint job so they fit the pickup....with you KEEPING your 302 in there, you're going to need them
EFI, non-EFI, its still the same POWERHOUSE..........yup, 5.0L....raw horsepower, haha
EFI, non-EFI, its still the same POWERHOUSE..........yup, 5.0L....raw horsepower, haha
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2005
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[QUOTE=imlowr2]Wacky- Hate to blow your bubble about 302's. Its sound more to me your mechanic hasn't got a clue on how to putting a motor together to where it stays together . Maybe you should check out some of the AC Cobras running 289 and 302's that run on hard tracks at high RPM's for several hours, days, months at a time. They seem to hold up and even run for years on end. Several Mustangs and other Ford vehicles run 302's on the race track, circle tracks etc. They seem to be doing well also. Any engine with detonation, worn out parts, wrong parts, etc isn't going to last long. In your case, "there's no replacement for displacement" only means yours will make a louder boom. An engine is only as good as the person who puts it together.
The engine breaking had nothing to do with the mechanic, I built the motor. where it went wrong was contributed to several things. Knowing that I made over 430hp at the wheels and turning it to 7500rpm with stock main bolts was one problem. Ive built 302s and gotten away with spinning them to 6000rpm in my stangs, but knowing the block was a weak link and keeping the revs down can make the block live. Second problem was the fact that I went with a cheapo chinese balancer that the timing was way off. When set at 10 degrees to spray on the motor it was actualy advanced another 12degrees. When I sprayed on it it detonated, and we all know what happens there. It beats the mains , the caps walk and unfortuaately split the mains. That was a lesson learned there. When it was time to replace the block, I went ahead and put in a stud girdle, (Cheap insurance I guess) Good ARP main studs, and ofcourse a quality balancer. Im still running a stock block with my new 354 stroker, but I am smart enough to keep the RPMs down to a resprectable level, so my block will live. As soon as I can afford a new Dart block, Ill turn up the hp levels. Being a mustang guy and owning over 20 fox body stangs I will never doubt the 5.0 engine. Hell my 93 coupe was a daily driven 9 second car, and I still have a fox car. I guess I just expect too much out of them now, and don't like to ruin a perfectly good rotating assembly on a stock block. My plans are to make this truck a turbo truck, so I dont have to beat on it so hard to be quik. turbo's make up for that lack of displacement, wink wink. I have a 545cube stroker I can put in the truck, but I love fuel injection and simplicity so I wont go there. I plan on driving this truck as regularly as my 04 Tahoe. I don't want a super radial truck I can't enjoy. So please don't take me wrong about the 302. I dont think there is a better more proven motor from ford than the 5 liter engine. I just wanna know that my block won't split when my goals are 600plus RWHP.
. Maybe you should check out some of the AC Cobras running 289 and 302's that run on hard tracks at high RPM's for several hours, days, months at a time. They seem to hold up and even run for years on end. Several Mustangs and other Ford vehicles run 302's on the race track, circle tracks etc. They seem to be doing well also. Any engine with detonation, worn out parts, wrong parts, etc isn't going to last long. In your case, "there's no replacement for displacement" only means yours will make a louder boom. An engine is only as good as the person who puts it together.The engine breaking had nothing to do with the mechanic, I built the motor. where it went wrong was contributed to several things. Knowing that I made over 430hp at the wheels and turning it to 7500rpm with stock main bolts was one problem. Ive built 302s and gotten away with spinning them to 6000rpm in my stangs, but knowing the block was a weak link and keeping the revs down can make the block live. Second problem was the fact that I went with a cheapo chinese balancer that the timing was way off. When set at 10 degrees to spray on the motor it was actualy advanced another 12degrees. When I sprayed on it it detonated, and we all know what happens there. It beats the mains , the caps walk and unfortuaately split the mains. That was a lesson learned there. When it was time to replace the block, I went ahead and put in a stud girdle, (Cheap insurance I guess) Good ARP main studs, and ofcourse a quality balancer. Im still running a stock block with my new 354 stroker, but I am smart enough to keep the RPMs down to a resprectable level, so my block will live. As soon as I can afford a new Dart block, Ill turn up the hp levels. Being a mustang guy and owning over 20 fox body stangs I will never doubt the 5.0 engine. Hell my 93 coupe was a daily driven 9 second car, and I still have a fox car. I guess I just expect too much out of them now, and don't like to ruin a perfectly good rotating assembly on a stock block. My plans are to make this truck a turbo truck, so I dont have to beat on it so hard to be quik. turbo's make up for that lack of displacement, wink wink. I have a 545cube stroker I can put in the truck, but I love fuel injection and simplicity so I wont go there. I plan on driving this truck as regularly as my 04 Tahoe. I don't want a super radial truck I can't enjoy. So please don't take me wrong about the 302. I dont think there is a better more proven motor from ford than the 5 liter engine. I just wanna know that my block won't split when my goals are 600plus RWHP.