OLD BUSTERS? HEY WATCH IT PAL! I resemble that remark...

Vern

 

Waky

That does sound like a crazy little engine. I'll be hanging around with the crowd that has less than 8 or 10 grand invested in their motor though. Only half the power you and Dick are talking about would be more than sufficient for most of us. Still. it would be neat to see a 500HP 302, any way you do it.

 

According to My Dear Loving Nephew, Ford SVT has decided that there are enough GM Engines in Ford vehicles.
They have been listening to the "Users" and have started to make changes to components that will make ALL current engines more compatable to use in other vehicles, plus supplying the Goodies necessary to boost the performance.
Some of the major complaints being addressed are - Plug and Play Wiring Harnesses. GM had one Plug through the Firewall for the major components Ford had 5 or more.. Fords small block had a water pump that made it longer than a GM big block. It will take some time but the "Put a Ford in your Ford" is more than an ad campaign

 

'fenders

According to a build computer from a race team, with a mild cam and the heads reworked with big valves, I have 315 and 389tq, so the computer says. Do you have to ever crank an engine to brag about power? That may happen in March as the mini/major resto should be complete.

Purple

Your on pink slip for pink slip! Bring yours to Knoxville, I'm tired of being beat up over a 'girly motor' , I'll show you.......Now just one addition to the great race....distance will be one tank full of gas. Rules...no aux tanks or fuel tankers allowed.

Jet Jock
"I drive a 'girly' 302 because, when I want to go fast, I go to work"

 

" According to a build computer from a race team, with a mild cam and the heads reworked with big valves, I have 315 and 389tq, so the computer says. Do you have to ever crank an engine to brag about power?"

Absolutely not Bill. You're word is good here. Purple has to prove you're lying, and all the "girls" here will come to your defense.

So we'll just round your numbers up to an even 400HP/450# torque and call it good. That'll kill a stock big block Lincoln motor. And that's all we need for now. You're the man Bill.

Seriously though, those torque numbers on a non-stroked 302 in a streetable and naturally-aspirated package would require you to really get it dialed in really-really right. You'd need a real good set of heads. I'm not even sure FMS Aluminum GT-40 Y303 aluminums would get you there without working them over. AFRs could do it though.

The euphoric power seems to be a stroker. The stroke to bore ratios can be optimized, and the torque just comes without even trying. I'd like to see some of these modern tactics and parts available for a Y-block. The Y-guys are seriously handicapped by forty+ year old heads and intakes.

Where the power happens is what is so critical to me. I've got it wrong a few times. Big horsepower means nothing from a practical standpoint, if you have no torque until the engine hits 3500RPMs, but you know that already. Fear of repeating that mistake is what caused me to underbuild my current motor. And I'm not about to over-react by buying what some kids friend bought on a Mustang forum. There's a lot of unpractical "wisdom" being offered up on the net. Tough to sort through it all.

Dick

That is GREAT news. It can't happen soon enough. Ford really screwed themselves right out of the aftermarket for decades with their tactics. Henry would NOT have been impressed.

 

I think this is all it would take to get more Fords in Fords. GM made so much of thier either interchangeable or use the same components. Look at all the OE and aftermarket Power window kits and Steering columns. The wiring on them is either interchangeable or compatible across all models. That is why the aftermarket is based on GM factory stuff. A plug and play harness would be a dream. The thing is WE got to support it. Just like with the new 53-55 Steel F100 doors that are out and the 53-56 Hood that is coming. We have to support it. The Chevy guys support their vendors and such. EFI is not real hard to understand. I am a dummy automotive wise. I have never even changed brakes on a car. But I can read and comprehend. EFI runs off some of the same principles as a carburetor. You need air because that is what the computer measures to determine how much gas to spray thru the injectors and you need to spark to ignite the gas and fire the engine. Once a person learns that and how to use a test meter he or she can run EFI. My 55' with the Base model Speed Density 88 5.0 gets 22 mpg with a 3.40 gear and AOD tranny. Not bad for one of the least aerodynamically designed vehicles.

 

I've been really happy with my '84 302 with 350 cfm 2 barrel. It only has about 200 hp and 245 ft.lbs torque but it will put me in my seat (probally the 4.88 gears but can't wait for the 4.10 gears). My truck is the fastest vehicle in my family and I'm proud of it. My carb is the limiting factor right now but I plan on converting to fuel injection later (mustang junkyard near by).

 

I am mildly amused by all of this posturing but at the same time impressed by some of these numbers. I really feel like a dinosaur building a 351-c but with roller lifters, rockers etc good prep and proper air/fuel management I hope to make some impresive power/torque, hope my AOD is up to it. There is a guy here in Tucson who just built an Superformance Cobra that has a Rousch 427 Windsor in it and it is absolutely amazing, I haven't been in the car but I was at the shop when it took it's maiden "performance" voyage and I felt like I was watching an original S/C. modern engines are mind boggling, at least to my old mind

 

HI

Well Ford got one thing just like the aftermarket. We are in the process of installing a 97 5.0L in a 29 ford tudor. My friend want's it to have a mech fuel pump and carb (less wiring) so we went to the local ford dealer and bought a new short water pump for "V" belts and the matching 2 grove pulley set. Got it home and just like the aftermarket the pulley holes are just off enough that only 2 bolts will screw in so we get to modify the pulleys.

It sure would be nice if the quality was better but just like everything that he has bought for this hot rod you get to spend twice as much time fixing as you do installing.

But it will have a Ford powertrain come h*ll or high water!

Chuck

 

there is truth in the old adage that "it must be a hotrod part, it doesn't fit"

 

You guys are talking about major horsepower. I think you have to figure out what you want. Do I want a 302 which runs well and easy to maintain, or do I want a ground pounder with unlimited horsepower? An important factor here is that these trucks are 50 years old. They weren't designed to handle 450+ horsepower on a regular basis. I had a friend who had a 429 with a BDS Blower attached which he had in his boat. The boat sunk when he forgot to replace the drain plug. I wanted to purchase the engine which seemed to be in OK shape for cheap. I was told by several mechanics that the truck would not be able to structurally handle that horsepower which I believe was dyno'd at 625 horsepower. It would work but I would have to do major frame construction and drivetrain altercations. To me it wasn't worth with all the work to the truck. My 289 is not the most powerful thing on the street, but then again it works for me because I love to just cruise around and that's what it does for me. It would be nice to have over 400 horsepower, but I think I would use it in another type of vehicle. Or..... I can put the blown 429 in my old truck and make her a trailer queen, which will never happen.

Merc- I feel your pain on the pulleys. I went through the same thing on my engine. Amazingly the previous owner used GM pulleys and redrilled the holes to fit the engine (mickey mouse to say the least). I couldn't find Ford pulley that would line up with the alternator or clear the water pump. I finally found a Pulley from a GM product (don't tell anyone) where the bolt holes lined up and the V belt aligned with the alternator, and it was chromed to boot. If everything went together perfectly, we wouldn't have all this fun and my refridgerator would still be full of beverages. (smile)

 

"You guys are talking about major horsepower. I think you have to figure out what you want. Do I want a 302 which runs well and easy to maintain, or do I want a ground pounder with unlimited horsepower?"

Lower,

I completely agree. I want that magic spot in between. I didn't realize it was really an option with a 302. Always assumed 300HP with decent torque was not a reasonable goal for the street. Seems that it is now days. Gotta agree on the 500-700HP stuff. You're gonna need scheduled ring and bearing changes. That's not for me. There's no way that is going to come in a package you can drive up and down the interstate without a care. I couldn't afford it even if it was. Weight savings is one of the biggest reasons I desire to stay 302 blocked.

I was hopeful I could pull a few 5.0 tuning experience members out of the woodwork with this thread. I know PJS55 (John) is very interested in the subject too. I haven't paid any attention to the EFI threads over the years.

FF56

As for as the posturing, it's got some history here. You see Jet Jock and I are the smallblock "good guys". We didn't start this girly 302 thing. Purple55 is the evil Bigblock man. He's really mean to us but we enjoy it.

And you got to remember a 351C is pretty easy to be satisfied with. The torque is factory installed. We don't really have that with a carbed 302. Almost all the old smallblock heads are really pathetic. Exceptions are few.

 

Fatfenders - I hear ya. I'm in the same position. Trying to squeeze some extra horsepower out. I know with the small block Fords, they need to breath and they really come alive. I don't know much on the EFI systems or the computer chipping guys or tweaking the newer 5.0's so I'm not going there. I do know to make the older small blocks run, a set of exhaust/ headers, maybe some head porting, a manifold and good carb works. That's why I'm still looking for a set of headers, because my 289 is choking to death. LOL... Since we have a girly engine, maybe a little lipstick on the heads might fire the engine up. ( I need to be careful with this statement!)

 

I like this thread and do not want it to go off the subject.But if a 302 is a girly engine,what is my 223.A granny girlie engine?

 

This discussion is getting a bit silly when trying to compare a kiddy cruzer 5.0 'stang against a barn door faced truck.

Inches count and unless someone wants to refute the laws of physics it aint gonna change.

When you get to the 351W and stroker versions you are already in the realm of the 352/390 FE and those aint little blocks. Ive a 351W in my 12' dually E350 box truck and that moves pretty decent even overloaded. Going with a Weiand Stealth/Edelbrock 1406 and long headers into a single big pipe as soon as I can get all the parts together. Just need a bit more pull on long hills when Im way over the weight limit. Ford Performance and Edelbrock also have much better heads available than the 86's Im using, but Im not that desperate to spend that much money. Id go 460 first.

Dont discount a 460. My buddy has a 96 F450 ?? 16' box truck and with some aftermarket stuff and tuning he gets 16-18 mpg with a moderate load on the OD AT. And that thing has got some serious pull off the line. He can tow my dual axle car trailer with one of his 60's MOPAR Hemis on top and not even feel it.