53 F-100 Overdrive Components
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Elder User
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From: Canada
53 F-100 Overdrive Components
I am posting this in hopes that someone can give me some advice on the necessary components needed for installing an overdrive into a 53 F-100. I have access to literature if there is somewhere that will list the necessary items.Or if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. I have had Flatheads for many years and have yet to drive or own one with the O/D Transmission. Any and all replies will be helpfull, thanks.
Last edited by 5 Star; Feb 25, 2005 at 02:54 PM. Reason: mis-spelled post
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
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From: Nor Cal
Research / collect / oop's / Spend more cash on parts you can't or will never use!
Here Ya Go Man, I don't claim to be this smart, but I'm in the middle of the same swap and have posted several times on the subject. I cut and pasted this from a bunch of helpfull FTE'rs. I tried to credit some of them. Hope some of this helps, did me!
I've ended up with a 53 3 Spd. Truck Overdrive from behind a Flattie, Hollanders say's it's the 1st OD that will interchange behind my 55 329 OHV. We'll see when I start trying to bolt it together.
O.K. I wanna get an original 3 spd overdrive behind my 55 239 Y-block. I was told that you cannot simply add a O/D to a standard light duty 3 Spd. There is apparently some difference designed to accommodate the O/D unit. As I remember vaguely it has something to do with a notch that acts as a lockout for reverse or some such technical minutia.
Yes and a thousand other differences. Ford has never been an interchangeable piece of machinery, I found that one out years ago, comparatively most GM stuff interchanges rather easily. Ford engineers seemed required to keep themselves busy designing parts that wont interchange.
You cannot adapt an early car 3 Spd. overdrive And there are huge differences between car Bellhousings and Truck Bellousings. Truck bellhousings have lower mounts cast in, that car bellhousings do not. car clutches use a pressed throwout fork that needs to be PUSHED; trucks use a forged throwout that needs to be PULLED. Stock truck boxes from these years had a mount on the trans for the inside end of the cross shaft for the clutch & brake pedals. Other transmissions may not have this.
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FTE; pcmenten
Truck bellhousing is 7 1/8" deep
Car bellhousing is 6 3/8" deep
Truck T/O bearing ID 1 3/4"
Car T/O bearing ID 1 3/8"
Input shaft length from face of transmission;
truck 7 1/4"
car 6"
Truck HD bellhousing TCAL 7505 B
Truck LD bellhousing TAAM 7505 A
The truck 3 Spd. OD trans has the number/letter 3T and possibly an A painted to the top of the main gear box.
The truck 3 Spd. OD trans has a bearing retainer with the letters TAAA (nnnn) cast into it.
I think the HD 3 Spd. transmissions have a bolt pattern like the T98. The HD 3 Spd. is a top-shifter design. The light duty 3 Spd. is a side shifter.
Car transmissions have a shorter input shaft because the bellhousings are not as deep as truck bellhousings.
The truck 3 Spd. OD transmission has 10 splines, so your H.D clutch set would work with a truck OD transmission. The good news; your flywheel and clutch set are probably the big 11" set. If you use a trans with a different spline count, a different clutch disk will fix the problem.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; Wild.Bunch
The strongest OD bos was the T89 3 Spd. with the R11 BW OD. These were stronger than the weaker R7. Check out a Hollanders to see this.
The T89 truck and T85 car boxes were similar, but the truck T89 has straight cut spur gears for 1st and reverse, whereas the T85 gears are helical on 1st and reverse. The T10 4 Spd. is based on this same case, with 1st taking the reverse spot and reverse being moved into the tailhousing.
Input shaft length:
car: 6.5"
trucks, 65 and up: 6.5"
trucks, up to 64 (with motor mounts on bellhousing) :7.125"
Input shaft Dia.:
cars: 1.0625"
trucks: 1.375
Bellhousing input bearing retainer hole:
cars: 4.85"
older cars & 64 - earlier trucks with car based trans: 4.675"
trucks with T98 4 Spd. & old T87 HD 3 Spd. 5.125"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vic's Deceased Wife's Brother
The 53 flathead trans should work. I have been told that if there is a shaft difference, it is a fraction of an inch and will be fine.
I would get the o/d and compare the dimensions with the trans in your truck. If the input shaft is shorter, you can install a longer pilot bushing in the crankshaft of your engine to make up the difference.
Keep the speedometer drive gear from your original trans and put it in the o/d to keep your speedo reading right.
Dan Boehm & A. Mather
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; Hanging_Dog
These transmissions are basically two transmissions bolted together--a standard 3 Spd. and a 2 Spd. planetary tranny. [The venerable Model T used a 2 Spd. planetary tranny. I often wonder how similar the two designs are--maybe someday when I add a "T" to my Ford collection.]
The speed governor and solenoid are two cylinder-shaped projections on the OD housing. They almost look like small, spin-on oil filters. Concours Parts out of Nevada sometimes has refurbished solenoids and speed governors. They are getting scarce and cost $250-$350. The folks at Concours told me that the speed governor's and solenoid's restoration is mostly a matter of cleaning and oiling. The gearing in the SG must turn freely (I think this is a centrifugal gear system), and the solenoid, when electrified, should move freely back and forth in its coil. They should be covered with rubber dust boots. I have been told, by folks more knowledgeable than me, If the dust boots are intact then the SG and S should be restorable. Concours Parts in Nevada also carry [ I haven't found any vendor that carries the control board for the speed governor. Ford truck shop manuals have the circuit diagram for this control board. I was just going to build my own. It is a very elementary circuit. ] This is dubious, the manual illustrates a circuit thru solenoids switches and centrifugal contacts but it doesn't appear to be an integrated circuit, D.O.
LMC Truck has the OD cables for the dash. They started carrying them last Spring. I think they may also carry the kick-down switch for under the gas pedal.
Two ways to turn off the Freewheeling/OD mode... One--you hit the kickdown switch, it sends a signal to the control circuit, the control circuit deactivates the solenoid, and locks the planetary gears. You can then push the cable pull on the dash back in and you are back to driving a plain old standard 3 Spd. Two--you drop below 19 MPH and the speed governor signals through the control board and deactivates the solenoid. Then you can fully lock out the OD by pushing the cable pull in. When the overdrive is pushed in and you downshift from 3rd to 2nd the second gear freewheels. At a low enough speed I would say around 25-30 if you rev it up a bit the gear will catch again. From reading the manual it seems to be right. So it seems if you are driving around town the lever should be out for direct drive with the overdrive engaged for highway use.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; Rustcollector
Warner OD Trany
The O.D. trany is designed to freewheel, it has a set of rollers that lock in under load, when you let off they retract and you get the freewheel. There were some questions about speed, the governor completes the circuit at about 28-30 mph this allows the solenoid to lock the trany into O.D. at highway speeds and drop back into std at low speed.
Deuced, the first thing you want to look for is an o d unit that has a casting number of "R10F", this is the O.D. used on '53 and later tranys. The "R10E" is an earlier version. Some of the internal parts are the same. But NOT the PAWL. Be careful here, I have seen people put the R10E pawl in a R10F box, it works for awhile, then rounds on the edge and no more locking into O.D. The O.D. tail unit on a truck is the same as a passenger car, on the truck (light duty) the input shaft has a larger pilot and the overall diameter of the shaft is larger. You should be able to put a truck shaft in the pass box. As far as using the non O.D. box, you would need to find an O.D. housing (gasket might work), bolt it to the back of the box and drill a hole for the reverse lock out shaft. When my O.D. relay died I bought a universal headlight relay, put a jumper between two points and have been running it for several years. As far as bolt up, I used the original 6 cyl bell housing on the back of my 292. I would start by trying to find a H.D. trany that you can get the bolt pattern from then compare to the pattern on the L.D. Bellhousing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; Cobraguy
I've got a '59 Pickup with the 3 speed overdrive trans. I lost the reverse and cluster gear in it. I had the same Trans. in my 59. It would jump out of first just before shifting RPM and would bang a couple of teeth off reverse or the cluster or both. If that is the case you need to replace the input shaft anyway. What has happened is the bore for the intermediate bearing is worn out. This will allow the main shaft to flex enough to pop out of gear at high RPM. I replaced the cluster gear twice and put new bearings in it and it still would jump out of first. I ended up putting a 3 Spd. toploader and 3.00:1 gears in it. I discovered the fix after the retrofit. Good Luck, Rich.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on Truckin, David
I've ended up with a 53 3 Spd. Truck Overdrive from behind a Flattie, Hollanders say's it's the 1st OD that will interchange behind my 55 329 OHV. We'll see when I start trying to bolt it together.
O.K. I wanna get an original 3 spd overdrive behind my 55 239 Y-block. I was told that you cannot simply add a O/D to a standard light duty 3 Spd. There is apparently some difference designed to accommodate the O/D unit. As I remember vaguely it has something to do with a notch that acts as a lockout for reverse or some such technical minutia.
Yes and a thousand other differences. Ford has never been an interchangeable piece of machinery, I found that one out years ago, comparatively most GM stuff interchanges rather easily. Ford engineers seemed required to keep themselves busy designing parts that wont interchange.
You cannot adapt an early car 3 Spd. overdrive And there are huge differences between car Bellhousings and Truck Bellousings. Truck bellhousings have lower mounts cast in, that car bellhousings do not. car clutches use a pressed throwout fork that needs to be PUSHED; trucks use a forged throwout that needs to be PULLED. Stock truck boxes from these years had a mount on the trans for the inside end of the cross shaft for the clutch & brake pedals. Other transmissions may not have this.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; pcmenten
Truck bellhousing is 7 1/8" deep
Car bellhousing is 6 3/8" deep
Truck T/O bearing ID 1 3/4"
Car T/O bearing ID 1 3/8"
Input shaft length from face of transmission;
truck 7 1/4"
car 6"
Truck HD bellhousing TCAL 7505 B
Truck LD bellhousing TAAM 7505 A
The truck 3 Spd. OD trans has the number/letter 3T and possibly an A painted to the top of the main gear box.
The truck 3 Spd. OD trans has a bearing retainer with the letters TAAA (nnnn) cast into it.
I think the HD 3 Spd. transmissions have a bolt pattern like the T98. The HD 3 Spd. is a top-shifter design. The light duty 3 Spd. is a side shifter.
Car transmissions have a shorter input shaft because the bellhousings are not as deep as truck bellhousings.
The truck 3 Spd. OD transmission has 10 splines, so your H.D clutch set would work with a truck OD transmission. The good news; your flywheel and clutch set are probably the big 11" set. If you use a trans with a different spline count, a different clutch disk will fix the problem.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; Wild.Bunch
The strongest OD bos was the T89 3 Spd. with the R11 BW OD. These were stronger than the weaker R7. Check out a Hollanders to see this.
The T89 truck and T85 car boxes were similar, but the truck T89 has straight cut spur gears for 1st and reverse, whereas the T85 gears are helical on 1st and reverse. The T10 4 Spd. is based on this same case, with 1st taking the reverse spot and reverse being moved into the tailhousing.
Input shaft length:
car: 6.5"
trucks, 65 and up: 6.5"
trucks, up to 64 (with motor mounts on bellhousing) :7.125"
Input shaft Dia.:
cars: 1.0625"
trucks: 1.375
Bellhousing input bearing retainer hole:
cars: 4.85"
older cars & 64 - earlier trucks with car based trans: 4.675"
trucks with T98 4 Spd. & old T87 HD 3 Spd. 5.125"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vic's Deceased Wife's Brother
The 53 flathead trans should work. I have been told that if there is a shaft difference, it is a fraction of an inch and will be fine.
I would get the o/d and compare the dimensions with the trans in your truck. If the input shaft is shorter, you can install a longer pilot bushing in the crankshaft of your engine to make up the difference.
Keep the speedometer drive gear from your original trans and put it in the o/d to keep your speedo reading right.
Dan Boehm & A. Mather
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; Hanging_Dog
These transmissions are basically two transmissions bolted together--a standard 3 Spd. and a 2 Spd. planetary tranny. [The venerable Model T used a 2 Spd. planetary tranny. I often wonder how similar the two designs are--maybe someday when I add a "T" to my Ford collection.]
The speed governor and solenoid are two cylinder-shaped projections on the OD housing. They almost look like small, spin-on oil filters. Concours Parts out of Nevada sometimes has refurbished solenoids and speed governors. They are getting scarce and cost $250-$350. The folks at Concours told me that the speed governor's and solenoid's restoration is mostly a matter of cleaning and oiling. The gearing in the SG must turn freely (I think this is a centrifugal gear system), and the solenoid, when electrified, should move freely back and forth in its coil. They should be covered with rubber dust boots. I have been told, by folks more knowledgeable than me, If the dust boots are intact then the SG and S should be restorable. Concours Parts in Nevada also carry [ I haven't found any vendor that carries the control board for the speed governor. Ford truck shop manuals have the circuit diagram for this control board. I was just going to build my own. It is a very elementary circuit. ] This is dubious, the manual illustrates a circuit thru solenoids switches and centrifugal contacts but it doesn't appear to be an integrated circuit, D.O.
LMC Truck has the OD cables for the dash. They started carrying them last Spring. I think they may also carry the kick-down switch for under the gas pedal.
Two ways to turn off the Freewheeling/OD mode... One--you hit the kickdown switch, it sends a signal to the control circuit, the control circuit deactivates the solenoid, and locks the planetary gears. You can then push the cable pull on the dash back in and you are back to driving a plain old standard 3 Spd. Two--you drop below 19 MPH and the speed governor signals through the control board and deactivates the solenoid. Then you can fully lock out the OD by pushing the cable pull in. When the overdrive is pushed in and you downshift from 3rd to 2nd the second gear freewheels. At a low enough speed I would say around 25-30 if you rev it up a bit the gear will catch again. From reading the manual it seems to be right. So it seems if you are driving around town the lever should be out for direct drive with the overdrive engaged for highway use.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; Rustcollector
Warner OD Trany
The O.D. trany is designed to freewheel, it has a set of rollers that lock in under load, when you let off they retract and you get the freewheel. There were some questions about speed, the governor completes the circuit at about 28-30 mph this allows the solenoid to lock the trany into O.D. at highway speeds and drop back into std at low speed.
Deuced, the first thing you want to look for is an o d unit that has a casting number of "R10F", this is the O.D. used on '53 and later tranys. The "R10E" is an earlier version. Some of the internal parts are the same. But NOT the PAWL. Be careful here, I have seen people put the R10E pawl in a R10F box, it works for awhile, then rounds on the edge and no more locking into O.D. The O.D. tail unit on a truck is the same as a passenger car, on the truck (light duty) the input shaft has a larger pilot and the overall diameter of the shaft is larger. You should be able to put a truck shaft in the pass box. As far as using the non O.D. box, you would need to find an O.D. housing (gasket might work), bolt it to the back of the box and drill a hole for the reverse lock out shaft. When my O.D. relay died I bought a universal headlight relay, put a jumper between two points and have been running it for several years. As far as bolt up, I used the original 6 cyl bell housing on the back of my 292. I would start by trying to find a H.D. trany that you can get the bolt pattern from then compare to the pattern on the L.D. Bellhousing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTE; Cobraguy
I've got a '59 Pickup with the 3 speed overdrive trans. I lost the reverse and cluster gear in it. I had the same Trans. in my 59. It would jump out of first just before shifting RPM and would bang a couple of teeth off reverse or the cluster or both. If that is the case you need to replace the input shaft anyway. What has happened is the bore for the intermediate bearing is worn out. This will allow the main shaft to flex enough to pop out of gear at high RPM. I replaced the cluster gear twice and put new bearings in it and it still would jump out of first. I ended up putting a 3 Spd. toploader and 3.00:1 gears in it. I discovered the fix after the retrofit. Good Luck, Rich.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on Truckin, David
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 785
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From: Canada
53 F-100 Overdrive Components
David, thanks very much for the detailed run down on the Overdrive. It is greatly appreciated, and looks like I have my home work cut out for me.
Also my thanks to the other members that helped you out, so that this info could be passed on. I do happen to have a Hollander Interchange Book that I can refer to as you outlined, on the different applications.
Again thanks for your reply to my question, it is very much appreciated.
Also my thanks to the other members that helped you out, so that this info could be passed on. I do happen to have a Hollander Interchange Book that I can refer to as you outlined, on the different applications.
Again thanks for your reply to my question, it is very much appreciated.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 41
From: Minnesota
I admit my teenage years were spent on GM vehicles a 1963 Chevy stepside with a 350. With how much trouble it seems to be to adapt the car transmission why not put an entire car motor and transmission? Would the motor mounts be easier to fabricate? I am still amazed at learning the car and truck did not have the same motor and transmission setup.
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Elder User
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Canada
I have been through the change over from a Flat Six to the Flathead 8, and believe me there is more than what some think there is involved.
If your thinking of converting your F-3 to a Flathead 8 now is the time to do it. The coin you spend on getting the Six running and on the road could be used to buy the necessary parts for the change-over.
Starting just to mention a few items is the Rad, Transmission, Battery Box, Wireing, and the list goes on.
I didn't realize just what I was getting into when I converted my 47 Coupe from 6 to 8. Believe me there was quite a bit to it.
Best of luck with your endeavour.
If your thinking of converting your F-3 to a Flathead 8 now is the time to do it. The coin you spend on getting the Six running and on the road could be used to buy the necessary parts for the change-over.
Starting just to mention a few items is the Rad, Transmission, Battery Box, Wireing, and the list goes on.
I didn't realize just what I was getting into when I converted my 47 Coupe from 6 to 8. Believe me there was quite a bit to it.
Best of luck with your endeavour.
Last edited by 5 Star; Mar 2, 2005 at 12:58 PM. Reason: spelling mistake
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
Likes: 1
From: Nor Cal
Good Question!
Originally Posted by green53
Did the truck OD trans have a cross member or did they just"hang" the trans off the bell housing like the light duty 3 speed?
Never considered it, even though I've been all over this and bought the 53 truck 3 Spd. Overdrive Hollanders say's will interchange, and by golly the 53 tranny I picked up does have a mounting surface with 2 mounting holes mid length.
I don't know what that means to my plans, does this mean the frame for an effie with the 3 Spd. overdrive was different? Holly Cow, that would be par for the course!
Maybe I'll get some feedback from another helpfull FTE'r that has an original 3 Spd. Overdrive. Hey you'all, look see and E-me!
David
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: AKRON ohio
It just HANGS out off the back. I have OD in my 56 panel and the y block uses the front motor mount and the bell housing mounts thats it!
Mine too has holes in it. I think the tail housings are the same explaining the mounting holes, but the holes are not used in the pickups.
Kevin Bigwin
Mine too has holes in it. I think the tail housings are the same explaining the mounting holes, but the holes are not used in the pickups.
Kevin Bigwin
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From: Winchester
Deuced,Thanks for the great info.You help me out with some questions I had.I have a 54 f-100 with a 223.I also have a car 3speed overdrive from a 54 car 239.I think I am just going to go the old rearend swap,looks like a lot let hassle.
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From: Canada
In answer to Dave's concern about haveing bought the wrong tranny, if I read this correctly.
I don't have my truck here 53 F-100 to look at. I can however help you out as far as identifying the mounting. I have a 53 Chassis manual from Ford that shows the mount on a 53 Truck O/D tranny. Further the book clearly states front engine support, as well as rear engine support, the latter being in Group 5025.
Hope I am on the right track as far as what your looking for.
I don't have my truck here 53 F-100 to look at. I can however help you out as far as identifying the mounting. I have a 53 Chassis manual from Ford that shows the mount on a 53 Truck O/D tranny. Further the book clearly states front engine support, as well as rear engine support, the latter being in Group 5025.
Hope I am on the right track as far as what your looking for.
Last edited by 5 Star; Mar 3, 2005 at 10:42 AM. Reason: spelling mistake
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