Okay, I started to add this to the "I before E except after C" thread, and then decided to start my own thread rather than hijack that one. With several threads lately about improving our knowledge base and "eddicatin' " ourselves, such as Dennis' "Word of the Day" threads I thought I'd add my .02 cents worth. (Adjusted up to a nickel for inflation)!

I've been thinking about this for a while now, as I see some very common misspellings repeated here a lot, and figured I'd offer a little advice. DISCLAIMER: I am not now, nor have I ever been, an English teacher. However, I grew up with a mother who IS, and I've been speaking it for over 40 years so I have a little experience! That's not to say that I'm always right, and I welcome any constructive criticism or corrections. (But please keep the flames to yourself!)

There are more words in English then in just about any other language, often many that mean the same thing. And to learn the rules doesn't always work because there are so many exceptions to them.

Spellcheckers are nice as far as getting the spelling right, but can't pick it up when you spell a word correctly but use it incorrectly. For example, To and Too...both are spelled correctly, but are not interchangable. "I'm going TO the FTE meet, Joe's coming TOO." An easy way to figure out the right one to use is to see if you can substitute the words 'As well". If they will fit, you can use 'too' in their place. "Joe's coming AS WELL." "Joe's coming TOO." See? Easy!
Of course there's also TWO, but since that is a number and the W makes it so different from the previous two, it's not as frequently misused.

How about there, their, and they're? Those words are very commonly substituted for each other. "They're" is a contraction of "They are", so you can sound it out when you're typing a sentence and see if it fits. "THEY'RE (they are) all going to the FTE meet, driving THEIR trucks, so we'll see you THERE. The same pretty much applies to your and you're. Here's another one that is often switched up: advice and advise. "I would ADVISE you to take this ADVICE."

And then there's the poor little apostrophe ( ' ), so often misused and abused. Many people seem to think that almost any word that ends with an 'S' requires the use of an apostrophe, but it just isn't so. Adding an 'S' onto the end of a word to make it plural does not require an apostrophe. "Please read these MEMOS." (To make it MEMO'S) would not be correct.) Or, "We're taking our TRUCKS." (Not TRUCK'S). The apostrophe is used to show possession. "Have you seen my TRUCK'S new engine?" Confusing? You bet! Welcome to English, now you know why people who pick it up as a second language often have so much difficulty with it. (Heck, a lot of us who claim it as our FIRST language have a lot of difficulty with it!)
Another common use/misuse of the apostrophe is in the word 'it's", a contraction of 'it is'. Sound it out. If you can use the words 'it is' in your sentence, then you can contract it to 'it's'. But if not, then leave out the apostrophe and go with 'its'. Yeah, I know. IT'S one that I still have trouble with too.

Well, that's probably enough for a first installment. Hope this helps a little. I may come back later and expand on apostrophe use a bit. If anyone has anything to add, please feel free. -Professor TD

 

TigerDan,

Your post on the correct use of grammar and english is fine, that is, if one is brushing up on authorship or business correspondence. However, it is my feeling that FTE is full of Ford Vehicle enthusiasts who care less about literature or its needed perfections. I suspect most of the members on FTE are not English Majors and are not computer extremists.

I am a Mod on a Special Forces/Navy SEALs Website and the misspellings there are easily overlooked when expecting posts coming from other than holders of Harbrace Handbook of English.

That is, the right peg in the right hole at the right time.

 

TD,

Your post on spelling and grammar is right on the money in my opinion. The better we communicate, the better off we are. I for one tend to use the apostrophe incorrectly quite often.

Now go back and check your use of the word "then" in paragraph 3........... Oops.

None of us are perfect......

(I just could not pass this one by)

 

Oh, umm, errr, that was an example of the difference between 'then' and 'than' for use in an upcoming lesson...yeah, that's it! Now I remember! Thanks for pointing that out!
As for whether or not an English lesson is really that important here...I feel that anything we do to improve ourselves is worthwhile. I learn a lot on this site, whether it's how to fix something on my truck, lessons in everday life, or even in how to communicate better. If I can help to spread some knowledge, then I will do so. I am not an English Major, I didn't even attend college and hold no degrees. I just know what I have learned thus far, and what I don't know I am willing to learn. I would hope that there are others out there who feel the same way. Ignorance is not always bliss! -TD

 

Been said that people, when reading only look at the general spelling of a word. What I mean is.....that if you spell "what" as "waht", people still konw waht you maen.

Great post Tiger!

Oh yeah....I wish some folks would learn to use a "period" to end a sentence. The bass player in our band emails me and he never uses a period to break up his sentences. I have to read the thing four times or more to get what he means.

Thanks again Tiger.

 

I 'd have to agree with you TigerDan. The thing that really bothers me is when someone writes the message in one long sentance. If we would all just re-read our post before we hit "Submit Reply" we could clear up a lot of the grammar problems.

 

I'd have to say that most of the people who react negatively when the idea of improving grammar and English usage comes up probably don't really know the right way and are slightly embarassed by that. Rather than improve, I think they choose to deny the importance of it all... but honestly, it's very important. I am not an English major, but I can't stand when people incorrectly use contractions. Laziness is better than ignorance... if you don't know if/where to use one... DON'T! Pretend like you don't have the time to insert that apostrophe!! And using words like whether and weather wrong... the worst part of it all is that when you honestly don't know it and try to write a resume... Not all employers will pick it out, but many notice. For example... my gross roommate is a member of a fraternity, Beta Theta Pi. If anybody here has gone Greek before, you'll know that one of the first things you have to learn is the Greek alphabet, how to say and spell it. Well, this guy thought being part of "Beta Theta Pie" was such a good accomplishment that he just had to list it in bold... Even though sometimes it's not that important, having a grasp on language can help you avoid looking stupid in critical situations.

 

Cuz we're all slack jawed yokels whu'n aint book learned past the 6th grade.

The subject of spelling correctly and or the use of proper grammar isn’t too important in getting a point across here. I know when I misspell a word or when I use run on sentences. We aren’t being graded here so I don’t bother to take a few extra seconds to double check spelling and such. If you guys want to promote good grammar for the betterment of FTE I admire the effort.

As for me I’ll stick to the “net slang” and speed typing. BTW I flunked High School english yet oddly enough tested out of all College courses.

 

A lot of the time, you can get away with minor mistakes and creative spellings and get your point across (I have a hard time reading those posts without punctuation too!), but the more practice you have doing that, the harder it is to NOT do it when it's important. For example... a friend of mine has a nickname that isn't offensive, but it's not professional. I gave him a character reference for his job with a major company. I have NEVER called him by his real name, keep in mind. I was doing very well and then all of the sudden there goes his nickname. Then "dude". Lots of fad language. Didn't I feel smart? I still can't call him by his real name... but I've gotten the "dude" and "freakin" part down while in "grown-up" situations.

 

i hope this thread gets some of the 15 and 16 year olds here with 3rd grade spelling to understand some of us only want to help them out in the real world

 

The last thing I would do is ridicule anyone for their grammar or spelling.
Yes, I may mention it to someone,but to only aide the readers.

Usually it's a word that was typed in wrong a dozen times, so I know it wasn't a typo.

It is my belief that the Writer should do the best they can to, lessen the hardship for the Reader to understand what they are saying.

It isn't really fair to the Reader one bit.

I know of many users on FTE that refuse to TRY TO read something,someone has written so badly it takes 10 minutes to get through.
There was a post 2 years ago that had at least 80 lines of text without punctuation that even the Webmaster commented on, and Ken rarely says anything about general discussion.


In my case, I was advised to do the best at anything I attempt.
Schooling hammered itself into my brain.

In fact,I got spankings from not going the whole 9 yards trying to learn things The biggest reason? my Mother was educated in Britain

I feel being part of FTE has improved me in my writing skills (or lack of them)

To the person (people in general) who thinks that it really doesn't matter,
How about if you were given your paycheck on a Friday afternoon & couldn't cash it because the payroll person spelled your name wrong,
That's when it matters...right ?

No offence to anyone

 

Proper spelling and correct grammar lend credibility to any message being conveyed. Every time. Sorry, that is just the way it is.
Of course, the writer could easily turn out to be an idiot which would be proven out by the facts presented in the communication. But, an intelligent person will have a hard time convincing others to read what they have to offer if it is full of mistakes. Eventually, they will prove themselves to knowledgeable but they have to get over the credibility hurdle first.
I am not being holier-than-thou (at least not trying to). My perspective comes from trying to convince my high school students for 20 years that this subject is important. I have seen so many very bright and astute students shoot themselves in the foot job-wise because they refuse to see and understand this simple truth.

 

You are correct and your point is well taken, but some of us will opt to skip future lessons.
Dono

 

I am the one who started the other thread. I had thought about doing one on common errors, but hesitated because I didn't want to ruffle any feathers. I hope no one is offended, and takes it in the original constructive spirit as TigerDan intended. I wasn't an English Major either, but my mom was a French Teacher. (Don't ask me anything about French )

I think Americans and the British differ in the spelling of some words with regards to the usage of 's' and 'c'. For instance, I think the British spell "choice" as "choise". I have seen that second spelling on this forum as used by the Canadians, so I suspect that they use the British spelling.

One reason I try to use good English on my postings is that I don't want people to get the impression that West Virginians are illiterate hicks. I am, and will always be, a country boy, but I don't want people to think I am illiterate. I know several students from foreign countries that are attending college close here. It is embarassing when they speak better English than the American students!

I try to spell words correctly, but in cases where the choice of spelling is somewhat arbitrary, as in "potato" vs. "potatoe" (remember Dan Quayle and that one that the media made so much to do about?), I agree with the quote attributed to General and later President Grant. He said something to the effect that it takes someone with a very poor imagination who can only think of one way to spell a word!

Sometimes I deliberately misspell a word if the normal spelling looks funny and misleading to me. One of these is coworker; I prefer co-worker. Coworker looks to me like it has something to do with cows. (insert smilie-face; for some reason they don't seem to work when editing a previous post).

I also think that grammar rules should be somewhat relaxed in a forum such as this in the same manner that they are in general conversation. I remember discussing with one of my English Professors in college about the use of "one" instead of "you". I said: "If one used one everytime one should use one, one might be considered rather pedantic by one's associates, mightn't one?". She replied: "One might" (insert appropriate smilie-face). Brady

 

I just have to throw my .02 into this conversation. Having kids in high School and Middle School, I'm amazed that any of them can write a coherent sentence after seeing how English is taught in schools today. I have to say that carefully- my wife's a HS teacher, and I was an English Major myself. That being said, I'm encouraged to see how many young people we have on these boards. I'd much rather they read the threads and post along, whatever their writing skills, to remaining intimidated and silent. Reason- FTE offers them a venue to read and write on topics they have an interest in, something that's not always true in English Class. Over time their communication skills will improve with practice. Writing is no different from working on a truck. You can read the directions for hours, but you really learn by rolling up the sleeves and getting the tools out. If all that's asked of me is to spend a little extra time trying to understand a poorly punctuated post, I'm more than happy to oblige.

The Northwest Chapter of FTE
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