I want to thank JEFF and everybody on this board for the education I have received in purchasing a new f-150. The vehicle I tried to purchase is a 2005 f-150, styleside, supercab,5.4, tow and go, 255 size tires, running boards, sliding rear window.

Jeff helped me with pricing on vehicle, actually for the flareside at first. I took his advice and pricing from ford direct and arrived at a fair price of 24,270. This is still more more than about 500 that Jeff would charge.

Long story short I struck a deal with salesman for $ 24270 including rebates plus tax, and tag. I expressed to the salesman this is all I was going to pay, no addon's, dealer fee etc... He assured me numerous times that he was an honest business man and that was all I was going to pay. My beacon score is 786 so its not like my credit was bad either

I get into finance manager office and he adds on extra fee for running boards, dealer fee's, tried adding cost of tag title into calculation for sales tax etc...

Long story short I told him that this was a scam and what he was doing was unethical. I told him that it is not right that he does this to people that don't know any better. i am lucky I was educated ( thanks to you all) and didn't fall for the scam. Needless to say I got up and left.

The salesman called me and said he don't know why the finance mgr did all that, he said I am honest I didn't know that he was going to do that. He said I will correct all the numbers and make it right. I told him I will call him if I change my mind but thanks but no thanks.

First of all am I right, shouldn't the price be agreed upon price, plus sales tax, plus tag fee. I think my 24,270 is a fair price based on ford direct and Jeff's help giving them plenty of profit.

if I am off base please let me know. I want to be fair but once I am lied to it is over. If my price and methodology is wrong let me know and I will correct my strategy.

If you all could respond and let me know your feelings on price and this incident I would appreciate it. Thank you all very much for the help.

Thanks again to Jeff. i may just be coming up to him to buy this vehicle.

 

I guess I really don't understand at all what happened here. First of all, in any store I've ever seen, the salesman isn't the one who makes a final determination of the selling price- that's a sales manager's job. The F&I guy sure the heck doesn't make that determination- he gets his direction from the sales desk, usually in the form of a sheet that outlines the structure of the deal. His job is to get the thing papered and funded. There's no motivation for a finance person to change the selling price of the vehicle- he doesn't get paid on that part of the deal.

What's the story on the running boards? If they were supposed to be added, dang sure there's sales tax involved. This whole thing is sounding like there really wasn't a clear understanding of the final deal before you landed in the F&I office. Am I close?

 

Well, I'm wondering what the F&I guy said when you said what the deal should entail. Sounds like you said your speel and walked out without trying to fulfill your dream. Mistakes happen. After all that I would've given the salesman a second chance.

My F&I guy gave me an extra 1K rebate that I wasn't expecting!

 

Get it in writing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then theres no question on what was said or not said. .

 

BSO8870,

I say try another dealer. I saw in one of your other post your from Ft. Lauderdale. About 10 yrs I bought a truck from a ford dealer some where in north broward county that was a no haggle dealer I think it was called Mulinax ford. you might want to give them a try. Like I said it was 10+ years ago and I've sinced moved to higher ground but they treated me right at the time and the price was fair.

 

I too was educated by this forum and Jeff. I made the deal for $100 below invoice minus $1000 dealer cash and rebates (let's not forget AQHA $500). Then I had to pay Uncle Sam and the motor vehicle agency. In NJ you make your deal and then pay taxes on that figure, even before rebates and down payments. There were no add-ons, like window etching, under coating (sound deadener), lipstick remover surcharge, document fee, computer fee, coffee fee, etc...

I did know that I would have to pay the tranportation charge, Ford advertizing fee, my "free" tank of gas and gas guzzler surcharge. In NJ there is a new one "tire surcharge". Do any of those ring a bell? If you just work up a figure then the transport, gas guzzler, etc, would be included in the final figure without you even knowing it. You still pay it but, it was negoiated in.

The F&I guy normally tries to sell you the exstended warranty, a little higher percentage, 7 years instead of 6, 5, 4, or a differant bank that they deal with. Look over what you were working on and see if this is the case. If this was what happened then go back and get your truck.

 

I did give the finance manager a second chance. he said this is what was given to him. The salesman walked in and told him the price of 27,240 and than left. We negotiated this as the final price and this was agreed upon.

I did figure in ad fee $ 305 and gas fee $ 9.30. I got the invoice from jeff and all of these things were added into invoice price. The salesman did write down the price on a worksheet.

I will give the salesman another chance to make it right. But all of this was discussed at length with the salesman prior to talking to sales manager. He assured me at least 10 times that the negotiated price plus sales tax plus tag was the only fee.

The running boards were negotiated into the 27,240 and was documented on worksheet prior to meeting with sales manager. This was clearly a ploy to eek out some more profit.

 

Just do an OTD (out the door)price the next time.That's pretty cut and dry.They can figure it anyway they want,as long as they meet your price.

 

Oh yeah..........the joys of shopping for a new vehicle, how's the blood pressure?

 

bso8870- maybe yes, maybe no. Once again, the salesman doesn't approve the final price- the sales manager does. It's still sounding like the deal got into F&I before the numbers were agreed upon by all parties. You agreed to them, the salesman might have agreed to them- but someone has to say "OK, lets run with it" before it goes to the F&I manager to finalize. So, the obvious solution is to have a worksheet spelled out clearly for all to understand and OK- before it hits F&I again.

 

It is no wonder that the percentage of new car purchases by internet and email is rapidly approching 30 percent. When I got my kid her Toyota, dealing with the sales managers made my hair hurt. It was a cash deal and the F&I lady wasnt about to blow it. She offered the extended warranty but did not push that nor alarm systems or other add-ons. The one thing CA dealers will not budge on is the "doc fee" that goes directly to them, not DMV. Maybe that is part of the F&I persons commission. I just mentally include that in my calculation of gross profit for the dealer.

Jim

 

"It is no wonder that the percentage of new car purchases by internet and email is rapidly approching 30 percent. When I got my kid her Toyota, dealing with the sales managers made my hair hurt. It was a cash deal and the F&I lady wasnt about to blow it. She offered the extended warranty but did not push that nor alarm systems or other add-ons. The one thing CA dealers will not budge on is the "doc fee" that goes directly to them, not DMV. Maybe that is part of the F&I persons commission. I just mentally include that in my calculation of gross profit for the dealer".

The deal on doc fees goes something like this- it's not mandatory to change a doc fee, but if a dealer charges it selectively, he's leaving himself open for a potential class-action suit. So, once the decisions made, it becomes an all-or-nothing proposition.

Unfortunately, no one gets paid on the doc fees.

 

If the deal was agreed upon and all is in writing then there should not be a problem. The finance people will usually try and ad things to the cost for extras and warranties and such, most do make a percentage of the extra add-ons they can get you to purchase. And a deal that is finalized by the salesman does not always go through the sales manager afterward. Most of this is done before the salesman gives you the final number on the sales sheet. Many times I have dealt with one sales person from start to finish without having to get anyone else involved or their approval so this goes by how the structure of the dealership is setup. So basically if you have the sales sheet with the correct numbers then that should have been that. Give your salesman a second chance to get it straightened out for he will have more influence over the finance people then you will.

 

Rollie- even if you dealt with only one salesperson from start to finish (the way we do things at our store), there was still a salesmanager in the background. If the mgr's doing his job right, he's invisible...but he's there. Can you guess what I did for years? Cancel the invisible thing- a good mgr/dealer will pop out after the deal's over thank the customer for their business- it's a nice touch.

The Northwest Chapter of FTE
we don't get lost,
we just get found

 

i GOT A CALL FROM THE SALESMAN TODAY. HE STRAIGHTENED OUT ALL OF THE NUMBERS. HE TOLD ME THAT THE GUY BETWEEN HIM AND FINANCE MANAGER DOCTORED THE PAPERS. hE SAID THIS IS HAPPENED BEFORE AND HE WENT TO HIS DIRECTOR AND GOT EVERYTHING STRAIGHTENED OUT. WHETEHER IT IS TRUE i DON'T KNOW BUT I TEND TO BELIEVE HIM.

THE FINAL PRICE IS 24,270 LIKE WE AGREED UPON AND ALL THE NUMBERS MATCH. I AM HAPPY WITH THE OUTCOME AND FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THE SALESMAN WAS HONEST AND JUST GOT CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL FOR THE GREAT HELP YOU HAVE BEEN.


MIKE