Not just Monte Carlos.........I kinda think it's rooting for a whole nameplate.

"Chevy/Ford is the best because we won Daytona or 'we' won the manufacturers cup" etc....

I can't imagine someone saying, Edited


Be it trucks, econo-cars, or even a sporty car I believe people want to have pride that their brand does well in motorsports. I also believe people want a flagship that they can brag about.........."Man, Ford rules because the Cobra can run 12 second 1/4 miles!!" I think this may be where Ford is currently alienating some people who look at cars/trucks as more than just economic transportation.

 

Your right F1 is not the problem. Jag lost a billion dollars last year that is the problem. If you are not making a profit you don't need to sponsor a race team.

Also at least here in the US halo days are over. Everyone now knows that what is on the race track is not what you can buy. Its not like the old days when you could walk into the show room and order a car like Budy Bakers with everything except the roll cage. Win on Sunday, buyers on Monday no longer applies. Thank the evironmenatlist for this.

 

No they won't.
And the reason is.
Can you buy a Taurus remotely close to a NASCAR???
I am not too familiar with NASCAR, but I imagine they would run about a 500hp V8 with RWD.
If you walk into a showroom you can purchase a 500 (can you still get a Taurus'?) with a 200hp V6 with FWD or AWD...

They need "halo" cars as stepping stones.
I mentioned Subaru before, and few companies use the "halo" effect better than them.

• They compete reasonably successfully in the WRC.
• They offer products which are physically and mechanically close to their motorsport brethren (WRX Sti)
• They are unique - boxer engines, all vehicles equipped with 4wd

Even someone driving a "poverty pack" Impreza can feel akinship with Peter Solberg hammering around the Monte Carlo rally.
Sure their vehicle has very little in common with his vehicle, but it has the
basics.
It looks similar
It sounds similar (boxer engine)
It has AWD

As cars get better and better, the average buyer will be unable to determine differences between a Ford or a GM in terms of quality, ride/handling, performance etc. and even if there is a difference it will be so negligble that it will unlikely influence them in a purchase.
What will actually influence them is "uniqueness" of the vehicle - something that the neighbours don't have, and even if they do have one, it isn't your standard economy car, it is something a bit different.

 

Peter Solberg, who is that? Just kidding but rally does not have a very big following in the states.

 

I understand rallying isn't big in the states, that was purely an example, but NASCAR, Indy and Drag racing are.
If Ford could play up its presence in each of those motorsports, and prehaps provide a product that more closely resembles something in this vain.
Imagine a new "King Cobra" or something that could do a 12s 1/4 from the showroom floor.
How about a RWD 500 with a 400+ hp V8???

Example: Ford Australia competes in what is called the V8 Supercars with their Falcon.
These are RWD sedans with around 650hp V8's with a maxumum of 5.0l in capacity.
Only Ford and Holden (GM's Australian arm) race in it, and it is similar to NASCAR, you may have heard of the "Bathurst 1000" - similar to your Daytona 500.

In both Holden and Ford Showrooms in Australia you can purchase RWD sedans with 400hp V8's and then it slowly filters down to a poverty pack - still fitted with RWD, and a 230 - 250hp six cylinder.
It works very well for both companies.

 

F350 that is what I'm trying to tell you, none of the big racing sports have anything to do with the cars we buy on the show room. Indy Car, F1, other than manufacturing name it has nothing to do with daily drivers. Drag racing when shown on TV is Top Fuel and Funny car. Again doesn't look like anything you can buy. Nascar is the closest but even there they look like nothing you can buy.

In the old days you could buy the car that one the Nascar race on Sunday. Now days each car is custom built tubular frame with a body that has been so regulated by the rule book that it really no longer looks like the car its based on. It doesn't put anyone in the show rooms anymore.

 

BigF350, you were selective when quoting my deleted sentence.......LOL!!!
Tmyers, 350, I don't agree.

Of course you're correct about the "old days" and while specific model recognition is nearly nill it's the mere presence of the manufacturers that is still important.

I've been to a couple NASCAR races here and the Monster Truck event and the crowds show their colors feverishly.

What I'm saying is that I don't hear, "Taurus rules" I hear, "Ford rules"

I see more Chevy or Bow Tie clothing than say Monte Carlo specific stuff.

IMHO the manufacturers need to keep a foot in the motorsports door or risk losing a large, brand loyal group of people.

True story. I'm working as a medic at last year's Monster Truck event in Vegas. I'm up close and personal to all the equipment in the parking lot before the show. I notice MADUSA, an F150 bodied monster, has a BBC in it. OK, I'm annoyed but there's still plenty of Ford powered stuff. I check out the cleanest Super Duty Monster, it's a gray truck sponsered by "BUILT FORD TOUGH" Ford flags and everything. The thing has a BRODIX head BBC in it!! FORD IS PAYING FOR A BBC IN A FORD TRUCK!! Just like John Force's Mustang funny car has a Chrysler based top fuel Hemi.

If I haven't bored everyone to tears yet here is were it gets good. The next day I start calling corporate numbers @ Ford and ask for who ever is in charge of advertising. I get a NY # and somebody actually calls me back after I leave a message.
I explain how mortified I am at what I found out at the Monster Truck event.

He calmly explains that the "average" fan couldn't tell the difference and it was the colors and sounds and pagentry that attracted the fans........and hopefully make them customers.

So while you're right that you can't buy a RWD 750 HP Taurus or Monte, the "FORD" or "CHEVY" camp is sure ecstatic when they win and their soccer mom mini van is made by the same people who just won that race!!!

 

The problem with NASCAR is that they don't allow the technology that Ford is using today. They neither allow OHC nor fuel injection. Personally, I believe that Ford should cut back on NASCAR a little and focus their money on something that they could get some real R & D from, such as a real F1 program or even a true LeMans effort.

 

I appreciate that there would have to be differences between road cars and race cars, what I am saying is there should be a link.
There in reality is little that a WRC car and a WRX Sti has in common
A WRC car has about 450lb.ft of torque, a full roll cage, some of the most advanced electronic systems, but it is the basic package.
I am saying all you need is a 500 that is RWD, has a V8 with about 400hp and prehaps a couple of lesser models that do provide SOME similarity with a NASCAR

 

How about a 400 hp Crown Vic? It's already RWD. Or a supercharged Marauder (i.e. the 03 Cobra engine)?

 

But what they also need is a car when it travels down the street, makes the average NASCAR fan's heart flutter.
If I ever see a Ford GT (I won't being in Australia) being a blue oval fan, I will go into partial heart relapse.
I know when I drive down the streets (I drive one of the aforementioned 400hp "hero" cars available in Australia) you get quite a few looks, of "wow" and you can see guys driving "taxi-spec" Fords speeding up to get a better look at the car - in many ways, it is what makes them Ford Fans.

I know show cars are one thing, but what brings people to a brand is seeing/hearing an impressive car, and then finding out its a Ford.
I remember 2 teenagers in a quick Skyline GTR, pulled up next to the lights, and I had to race them.
I managed to beat him quite convincingly (once I found traction), next set of lights, the driver wound down the window and said to me "Man I love Fords" - and he is driving a Japanese supercar!!!

As more and more people head to "premium" brands, Lexus/Audi et al. because of exclusivity, and a perception the quality is going to be much improved, Ford needs to do something to bring those customers back.
It is not going to do it by releasing V6 powered Auto FWD economy sedans.

 

Call me jaded I guess. I have no manufatures loyality when it comes to racing, I follow the driver.

 

This has been an interesting thread. Diesels, race cars, the "halo" effect. But nothing changes the present fact that the big two- yes two- are losing market share at a slow but steady rate. Like it or not, It's Daimler-Chrysler, and the company is as American as sauerkraut. The barbarians are at the gate. Meanwhile, Toyota soldiers on to another year of record profits and market share, Honda continues to grow with solid market leaders in target segments, and even Nissan is starting to show some life. Well, a pulse anyway. And they're all looking over their shoulders towards Korea, which is fielding some seriously competitive iron.

Does anyone realize what's at stake here? There are literally millions of retirees (and future retirees) that depend on these manufacturers for their pensions and healthcare. If GM and Ford (yes, their futures are tied together, IMO) cannot regain some of that lost market share, there's nothing to stop them from pulling a K-Mart or Delta (taking a viable business into BK, emerging without the pension-heathcare liabilities). Don't think it could happen? Ask a steelworker, or an airline employee, or anyone who worked for a corporation bitten by the "asbestos" bug. At the moment, some of GM and Ford's key suppliers have walked into Chapter 11 to escape from money losing contracts.

So, to me, the real and critical question is what does Ford (and GM) have to do to be more competitive in what is already one of the most competitive businesses in the world?

 

From what I have read, in my opinion ford is hurting but if they put the quality back up and quit thinking about profit. Well if we use these cheap parts it will last just past the regular warrenty and we wont have to pay for it and thats what makes people think about changing brands. My friend has a 04 F250 fx4 crew cab 6.0 nice truck but well hey 250miles before warrenty is up upper and lower ball joints and a drag link are all bad noticed when we were changing the oil and rotating tires up on the lift, take it in to 2 dealerships and well only one ball joint is bad to me that is just sad they tried to tell him he dosen't know what hes talking about when hes a ASC certified mechanic.
These modular engines I don't understand why ford had to switch to all ohc engines when they cost so much more than a pushrod engine and the #s between brands it is either close or the competition is ahead the windsor engines are reliable stand abuse run and run if they qould have switched to a better head design that flowed like the gt-40 heads or something id rather have that.
The hurricane engine I hope that was just a rumor from ford to make people think it was dropped I know there are people out there that don't want to run a diesel because of the insane costs of the filters and they don't want to pay the extra for a diesel. I think it would be a good option like with gm they have many gasser options and the diesel option. They all have their recalls and issues but they all should step it up it doesen't matter as much about the big 3 anymore its if its American that matters.

Just my opinion
Curtis

 

Anyone have any suggestions as to how Ford (and GM) can combat this?
I have put forward my thoughts - More diesels, and more "exciting" cars...