Codes,Codes,Codes!! 33,34,41,42,13.
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Codes,Codes,Codes!! 33,34,41,42,13.
Ok, many of you guys, specially fefarms, have been helping me a lot with all these codes have. Obviously, I've been LAZY and still have codes showing up. BUT I'm buckling down on this ol Ford and getting rid of that 8mpg...(for real this time 
)
Codes.
KOEO: 11
CM: 34,41 (I think 33 as well)
KOER: 42,33,13
34, EVP voltage... I tested EVP and recieved .40V at Idle. Also .40V when I took it off the EGR. I also pressed down on the pintle and Voltages changed accordingly. According to fordfuelinjection, those readings are good.
41, Lean Condition... I replaced O2 sensor a while back, but code still shows.
42, Rich Condition... I'm thinking to check fuel pressure. I've ran injector cleaners thru tanks to no avail. When checking pressure, what should readings be? My FPR doesn't leak into the vacuum line, but could it still be shot?
33, EGR valve not opening... Since EVP tested good, either the EGR is shot, or real dirty, or there is some vacuum leak somewhere, right? When using a vacuum pump, where and where do I apply vac to test for leaks? I wanna make SURE there's no leaks before replacing EGR valve.
13, Cannot control RPM... I'm stumped on this. I belive fefarms mentioning factors such as vacuum leaks.
Thanks for listening, again, and any help appreciated.
)Codes.
KOEO: 11
CM: 34,41 (I think 33 as well)
KOER: 42,33,13
34, EVP voltage... I tested EVP and recieved .40V at Idle. Also .40V when I took it off the EGR. I also pressed down on the pintle and Voltages changed accordingly. According to fordfuelinjection, those readings are good.
41, Lean Condition... I replaced O2 sensor a while back, but code still shows.
42, Rich Condition... I'm thinking to check fuel pressure. I've ran injector cleaners thru tanks to no avail. When checking pressure, what should readings be? My FPR doesn't leak into the vacuum line, but could it still be shot?
33, EGR valve not opening... Since EVP tested good, either the EGR is shot, or real dirty, or there is some vacuum leak somewhere, right? When using a vacuum pump, where and where do I apply vac to test for leaks? I wanna make SURE there's no leaks before replacing EGR valve.
13, Cannot control RPM... I'm stumped on this. I belive fefarms mentioning factors such as vacuum leaks.
Thanks for listening, again, and any help appreciated.
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From: Alabama
I have a situation where my truck is running really rich and sucking the gas. I am pulling a Code 33 and a 44. The reason I say this is because of the Code 33. I have been seeing this code for 3 or 4 months. I just hooked up a BOB, Break Out Box, to mine this past weekend and read the voltages. I'm seeing .6 volts on my EVP in a KOEO and a KOER test. Spec says it should about .4 - .5 V. The EGR valve is less than six months old and the code showed up about a month after I put it on. I have printed out a pinpoint test for the Code 33 off AllDataDIY.com that I am going to try to run this weekend if it doesn't rain. So I guess the point of all this rhetoric is that I hope one of us can figure out the Code 33 pretty soon.
guzzler96
guzzler96
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This is copied from your last thread here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=299857
You guys need to learn to search here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/search.php
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=299857
You guys need to learn to search here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/search.php
Originally Posted by fefarms
Code 33 means the PCM asked the EGR valve to open, and didn't get confirmatory feedback from the EVP sensor. When vacuum is supplied to the diaphragm, the EGR valve pintle should move upward, which in turn should push up on the EVP, which in turn should change the voltage going to the PCM. The PCM is not seeing this voltage change and so it sets code 33.
There are several possible reasons:
1) The vacuum diaphragm in the EGR valve leaks
2) The vacuum tubing between the manifold, the control solenoids, and the EGR valve is broken or leaks
3) The control solenoids and their valves are not working to supply vacuuum
4) The control solenoid wiring is bad
5) The EVP sensor is bad, or there is a problem with the wiring to it.
There are supposedly two kinds of EVP sensors, a gray one and a black one. They are not interchangeable. Did you put in the correct one?
Your screwdriver test proves that the EGR pintle is not stuck, the exhaust gas delivery ports are not blocked, and the spring that forces the valve closed in the absence of applied vacuum appears to work. But other than that, it doesn't do much to diagnose code 33.
Pulling the vacuum line off the EGR valve at idle should not have any effect (as was the case for you). The PCM does not engage the solenoid to supply this vacuum at idle speed. This particular test is not helpful.
Test the EGR valve diaphragm for a possible leak. The best way is with a Mity-Vac pump and a guage. But if you don't want to buy test equipment, there is the cheapskate way. Connect a clean vacuum hose to the valve and suck on it by mouth, as if drinking a thick milkshake from a straw. You should feel a strong opposing suction, and should be able to move the pintle off the seat by sucking hard enough. Plug the tube with your tongue and see if the EGR valve holds vacuum. It should hold your tongue stuck to the hose for long periods. Don't let your wife, buddy, etc see you doing this or you will not live down the razzing. But this method works well if you don't have the vacuum pump and guage.
If air just whooshes through the hose when you suck on it, the EGR valve leaks and needs to be replaced.
One thing you can do to test the sensor and wiring is to remove the screws securing the EVP. Pull the EVP out of the EGR valve. Push the EVP plunger all the way in, and tape it in place. Leave it connected to the harness. Run a KOEO test. (Don't start the engine). You should now get code 34. If you don't, the wiring or EVP sensor is bad.
Put everything back, clear the PCM, and run a KOER test. Does code 33 happen during the KOER test? If it does, you have a solid failure and can diagnose it. If it doesn't, you have an intermittant failure and will have to hunt for dirty connections, etc.
If code 33 happens on each KOER cycle, connect a vacuum guage to the line going to the EGR valve, and watch what happens during the test. Does the guage twitch or not? At some point in the test the PCM will advance the RPM above idle, and try to operate the EGR valve. You want to see if vacuum ever appears at the valve. It should during the test, but not at idle or when the engine is cold.
There are several possible reasons:
1) The vacuum diaphragm in the EGR valve leaks
2) The vacuum tubing between the manifold, the control solenoids, and the EGR valve is broken or leaks
3) The control solenoids and their valves are not working to supply vacuuum
4) The control solenoid wiring is bad
5) The EVP sensor is bad, or there is a problem with the wiring to it.
There are supposedly two kinds of EVP sensors, a gray one and a black one. They are not interchangeable. Did you put in the correct one?
Your screwdriver test proves that the EGR pintle is not stuck, the exhaust gas delivery ports are not blocked, and the spring that forces the valve closed in the absence of applied vacuum appears to work. But other than that, it doesn't do much to diagnose code 33.
Pulling the vacuum line off the EGR valve at idle should not have any effect (as was the case for you). The PCM does not engage the solenoid to supply this vacuum at idle speed. This particular test is not helpful.
Test the EGR valve diaphragm for a possible leak. The best way is with a Mity-Vac pump and a guage. But if you don't want to buy test equipment, there is the cheapskate way. Connect a clean vacuum hose to the valve and suck on it by mouth, as if drinking a thick milkshake from a straw. You should feel a strong opposing suction, and should be able to move the pintle off the seat by sucking hard enough. Plug the tube with your tongue and see if the EGR valve holds vacuum. It should hold your tongue stuck to the hose for long periods. Don't let your wife, buddy, etc see you doing this or you will not live down the razzing. But this method works well if you don't have the vacuum pump and guage.
If air just whooshes through the hose when you suck on it, the EGR valve leaks and needs to be replaced.
One thing you can do to test the sensor and wiring is to remove the screws securing the EVP. Pull the EVP out of the EGR valve. Push the EVP plunger all the way in, and tape it in place. Leave it connected to the harness. Run a KOEO test. (Don't start the engine). You should now get code 34. If you don't, the wiring or EVP sensor is bad.
Put everything back, clear the PCM, and run a KOER test. Does code 33 happen during the KOER test? If it does, you have a solid failure and can diagnose it. If it doesn't, you have an intermittant failure and will have to hunt for dirty connections, etc.
If code 33 happens on each KOER cycle, connect a vacuum guage to the line going to the EGR valve, and watch what happens during the test. Does the guage twitch or not? At some point in the test the PCM will advance the RPM above idle, and try to operate the EGR valve. You want to see if vacuum ever appears at the valve. It should during the test, but not at idle or when the engine is cold.
Last edited by HardScrabble; Jan 26, 2005 at 11:18 AM.
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From: B/CS, Texas!!
Sorry, search was not working as I am not a Club FTE member...'Server under high load'.
I worked today so I had no time for anything. I did though, buy the Fuel Pressure Test Kit. I couldn't find a handheld vacuum pump, only vacuum gauges. Thanks Hard for pasting the info
.
I worked today so I had no time for anything. I did though, buy the Fuel Pressure Test Kit. I couldn't find a handheld vacuum pump, only vacuum gauges. Thanks Hard for pasting the info
.
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From: Alabama
You don't have to apologize 93GreenF150, you didn't do anything wrong. I finally joined ClubFTE the other day just because I can never get to search. It must take them a while however to get it in place because its been three days and its not working yet. Anyway, if you can afford to wait a little while for some of these tools, sjdiscounttools has about the best prices on a lot of these things. I bought my hand vacuum pump and also my cooling system test kit from them. If you order at the first of the week you usually get it in the same week. I have also gotten some things at Harbor Freight. Toolsource has a lot of things too. Sometimes you can find what you want on one website and then do a search for the best price by model number.
guzzler96
guzzler96
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Hey I just found out after you join Club FTE you have to activate it. When you activate it, it comes up instantaneously. There is a lot about this and the other forums to learn.
guzzler96
guzzler96
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Ok, I tested fuel psi and got this...
Cycled Key ONCE to ON: ~20PSI and dropping fast to 10PSI.
Cycled Key THREE times: ~40 PSI and dropped to 10PSI in about 10 Seconds which I think is bad. From 10 PSI, the pressure started dropping slow.
Isn't pressure suppose to goto ~40PSI in just ONE turn of the key? Also, it is bleeding down WAY to fast, could it be a bad FPR?
Cycled Key ONCE to ON: ~20PSI and dropping fast to 10PSI.
Cycled Key THREE times: ~40 PSI and dropped to 10PSI in about 10 Seconds which I think is bad. From 10 PSI, the pressure started dropping slow.
Isn't pressure suppose to goto ~40PSI in just ONE turn of the key? Also, it is bleeding down WAY to fast, could it be a bad FPR?
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From: Alabama
Checked mine a while back and I don't think it will go to that high a pressure by turning the key just once. The static pressure on mine, turning the key 2 or 3 times and leaving the key on with the engine not running, was around 37 - 40 PSI. The running pressure was about 35 PSI best I can recall. I don't think that you're pressure should fall off like that. Mine held and eventually dropped gradually. I also remember a post by fefarms dealing with fuel pressure and approx. rate it should probably drop. You might try to, I hesitate to use this term, search by fuel pressure or related topics and see if you can find it. I will look also. Could be an injector leaking or the fuel pressure regulator diaphragm might be bad??
guzzler96
guzzler96
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Yea, I was afraid leaky injectors could be a cause. I'll check spark plugs and see if one of them is more fouled up than the rest. The vacuum line to the regulator is dry and doesn't smell like gas at all. I was afraid of running the engine with the Fuel PSI guage attached, but sounds like you did it, guzzler96, with no problem. I'll get Idle PSI A.S.A.P
Tried Search but I got 'Server Under High Load'...it worked fine that while ago....Oh well I'll join FTE soon. Joining does get rid of all these pesky ads, right? I really hate the last one that looks like a post.
Tried Search but I got 'Server Under High Load'...it worked fine that while ago....Oh well I'll join FTE soon. Joining does get rid of all these pesky ads, right? I really hate the last one that looks like a post.
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Pull the vacuum hose off the fuel pressure regulator. Cycle the key several times. Look for fuel squirting out of the fuel pressure regulator vacuum connection as the fuel pump runs. This will help you find a leaking regulator when the sniff test seems to give it a clean bill of health.
Thanks to Gene W for this tip.
Normal KOEO pressure is 40 PSI for a V8, 60 PSI for an I6
The pressure should drop 5 to 8 PSI when the engine is started.
It is acceptable if it takes a couple of key cycles to build pressure. The pressure should remain within 5 PSI for 30 seconds.
Bleed-down of pressure can be caused by a bad regulator (leaking past the diaphragm or leaking to the fuel pressure return line), or by a bad check valve in the fuel pump, or by a leaking fuel injector.
93GreenF150's fuel pressure is bleeding down way too fast....
Thanks to Gene W for this tip.
Normal KOEO pressure is 40 PSI for a V8, 60 PSI for an I6
The pressure should drop 5 to 8 PSI when the engine is started.
It is acceptable if it takes a couple of key cycles to build pressure. The pressure should remain within 5 PSI for 30 seconds.
Bleed-down of pressure can be caused by a bad regulator (leaking past the diaphragm or leaking to the fuel pressure return line), or by a bad check valve in the fuel pump, or by a leaking fuel injector.
93GreenF150's fuel pressure is bleeding down way too fast....
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Great, I'll do that.
Can worn out O-Rings in the Injectors cause leakage? If so, I hope its those thats the problem and not an actual stuck open Injector. Yea, I thought the pressure is dropping too fast. Thanks for replies guys, I'll post back Saturday as I have to work tomorrow after shcool
.
Can worn out O-Rings in the Injectors cause leakage? If so, I hope its those thats the problem and not an actual stuck open Injector. Yea, I thought the pressure is dropping too fast. Thanks for replies guys, I'll post back Saturday as I have to work tomorrow after shcool
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Hey guys -
That poses another question I have been pondering. How long do injectors last on average before either replacing or cleaning and rebuilding?? I found those Bosch Design III 19/lb on Five-o from a past post by EPNCSU2006 for about $33.50 ea., but they want almost as much to recondition them. Are any special tools required to change them out? I would assume you have to remove the upper intake to get to the back (2) on passenger side?? Not trying to hijack here,93GreenF150. BTW, I did run with fuel pressure gauge connected and its not a problem. BTW - 2, It does remove the internal ads like that pesky last one you mentioned, but the one down the side at the very top are there like always. Not all the way down the side.
guzzler96
That poses another question I have been pondering. How long do injectors last on average before either replacing or cleaning and rebuilding?? I found those Bosch Design III 19/lb on Five-o from a past post by EPNCSU2006 for about $33.50 ea., but they want almost as much to recondition them. Are any special tools required to change them out? I would assume you have to remove the upper intake to get to the back (2) on passenger side?? Not trying to hijack here,93GreenF150. BTW, I did run with fuel pressure gauge connected and its not a problem. BTW - 2, It does remove the internal ads like that pesky last one you mentioned, but the one down the side at the very top are there like always. Not all the way down the side.
guzzler96
Last edited by guzzler96; Jan 28, 2005 at 07:40 AM.
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I think as long as you run some injector cleaner through the gas tank every once in a while, the injectors should last you quite a while. There isn't too much that can go bad in the actual injector - it's mostly the deposits that form in/on the injectors that cause problems.
No special tools are needed really, just make sure that you get the o-rings out of the fuel rail. The upper intake manifold pretty much has to come off to get to any of the injectors. There are 4 bolts that hold down the fuel rail, and you must get all off in order to lift the fuel rail off of the injectors. Also be careful lifting the fuel rail - you don't want to bend it or kink it in any way. I have found that moving the rail in a circular motion while pulling works best, and if you can, pull right at the injector mounts.
No special tools are needed really, just make sure that you get the o-rings out of the fuel rail. The upper intake manifold pretty much has to come off to get to any of the injectors. There are 4 bolts that hold down the fuel rail, and you must get all off in order to lift the fuel rail off of the injectors. Also be careful lifting the fuel rail - you don't want to bend it or kink it in any way. I have found that moving the rail in a circular motion while pulling works best, and if you can, pull right at the injector mounts.