400 Engine Project- It's alive!!!
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 3
From: NE Texas
So, can you give a quick run down of what this engine involves. I've picked up the intake manifold, carb(s) and exhaust manifolds. What else does it have particularly pistons, heads and cam.
Thanks,
Doc
Thanks,
Doc
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
Final dyno tests, 3 carbs
Peak power has remained at the 30.5 degrees ignition advance. Oil pressure
remains at a minumum of 40# HOT
First carb was the*
650 Holley.
393 & 390 Corrected HP
447 & 451 Corrected Torque
Next carb was the:
*750 Edelbrock #1407.
377 & 380 Corrected HP
438 & 437 Corrected Torque
Next we tried a:
*700 Holley
386,391 & 396 Corrected HP
440,446 & 449 Corrected Torque
The Edelbrock just didn't dyno well. I created the most vacumn of the 3 carbs also. The Edelbrock carb was very smooth compared to the others. Might be the best "street" carb with realistic driving. Sp far I'm not seeing a real need for a carb much bigger than a 650 or 700 max. I'm guessing the 2 Plane Edelbrock intake will like the smaller carb even more.
We also picked up an old Edelbrock SP2P intake.
remains at a minumum of 40# HOT
First carb was the*
650 Holley.
393 & 390 Corrected HP
447 & 451 Corrected Torque
Next carb was the:
*750 Edelbrock #1407.
377 & 380 Corrected HP
438 & 437 Corrected Torque
Next we tried a:
*700 Holley
386,391 & 396 Corrected HP
440,446 & 449 Corrected Torque
The Edelbrock just didn't dyno well. I created the most vacumn of the 3 carbs also. The Edelbrock carb was very smooth compared to the others. Might be the best "street" carb with realistic driving. Sp far I'm not seeing a real need for a carb much bigger than a 650 or 700 max. I'm guessing the 2 Plane Edelbrock intake will like the smaller carb even more.
We also picked up an old Edelbrock SP2P intake.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 5
From: Delaware
The advantage of an Edelbrock carb is the metering at part throttle. A Holley carb is better at WOT. A Dyno is not the best way to test carbs, since it only tests at WOT.
Were the recent Dyno pulls with the Holley intake?
Were the recent Dyno pulls with the Holley intake?
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 3
From: NE Texas
I've never messed with an Edelbrock carburetor, but I've done alot with the old Carter AFB and AVS which appear to be exactly the same thing.
Yes, the drivability of the Carter is great WHEN NEW. The problem with them is that they just go away after awhile. Part of it is that the moving needle in the jet wears the needle AND the jet as well as the vacuum piston and bore that operate the needle. I think they probably are also prone to rapid throttle shaft wear. Maybe Vic has cured all this, if so it's probably a really streetable carb.
Have a great day,
Doc
Yes, the drivability of the Carter is great WHEN NEW. The problem with them is that they just go away after awhile. Part of it is that the moving needle in the jet wears the needle AND the jet as well as the vacuum piston and bore that operate the needle. I think they probably are also prone to rapid throttle shaft wear. Maybe Vic has cured all this, if so it's probably a really streetable carb.
Have a great day,
Doc
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
Yes the last pulls have been with the Holley intake. I thought we were close to an honest 400 HP, I had 1 pull that broke 400 HP, but I pull a number of times and look for the consistency.
<!-- Here's a complete run down of the build up and list of parts.
http://www.*********.com/400Ford.htm -->
<!-- Here's a complete run down of the build up and list of parts.
http://www.*********.com/400Ford.htm -->
Last edited by TMI; Feb 3, 2005 at 10:19 AM.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
I'm hoping the reliability is long enough to finish the next 2 intake tests.
I'm just kiddin, we want to test 2 more intakes and we have to pull the engine and move on. We have a few engines to get finished in the next 4-8 weeks so we don't have much time for an endurance test. We are building a 351 Cleveland for the race track. A customer ordered (2) 351W strokers for a couple of street rods, one will have a 6-71 blower. A 302 SVO block that has been bored and stroked to 390 cubes, this is also a circle track engine and should dyno 700 HP. And oh yea, an Olds engine for a local customer.
I'm just kiddin, we want to test 2 more intakes and we have to pull the engine and move on. We have a few engines to get finished in the next 4-8 weeks so we don't have much time for an endurance test. We are building a 351 Cleveland for the race track. A customer ordered (2) 351W strokers for a couple of street rods, one will have a 6-71 blower. A 302 SVO block that has been bored and stroked to 390 cubes, this is also a circle track engine and should dyno 700 HP. And oh yea, an Olds engine for a local customer.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
Sorry Snowfighter, I don't want to skirt the question, but I'm really not sure.
I know mud likes to get where it should not be sometimes. And that will cut into the life of an engine. We have had dirt circle track engines that last as long as 20-25 nights. and yet we have damaged engines on the dyno.
I know mud likes to get where it should not be sometimes. And that will cut into the life of an engine. We have had dirt circle track engines that last as long as 20-25 nights. and yet we have damaged engines on the dyno.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,416
Likes: 4
From: PacNW
I won't presume to speak for Tim but he has said in past threads about this motor that he intends to sell it when he's completed the testing so I would feel safe in assuming that he built it to last longer than just a few dyno runs.
If you take a look at the website you can see that it's been built using proven parts that Tim has used in the past and is probably better than any motor that came out of the factory. However those are cast pistons and therefore not as strong as forged so adding a blower/turbo or NOS would be a bad idea.
In a daily driver with the appropriate maintenance and the occasional hard mud run I'd be willing to bet you'd get at least as much life out of it as you'd get from a factory motor but with twice the performance. That of course assumes no FOD from ingesting something other than A/F mixture into the cylinders.
If you take a look at the website you can see that it's been built using proven parts that Tim has used in the past and is probably better than any motor that came out of the factory. However those are cast pistons and therefore not as strong as forged so adding a blower/turbo or NOS would be a bad idea.
In a daily driver with the appropriate maintenance and the occasional hard mud run I'd be willing to bet you'd get at least as much life out of it as you'd get from a factory motor but with twice the performance. That of course assumes no FOD from ingesting something other than A/F mixture into the cylinders.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 564
Likes: 2
From: Indianapolis IN
I am not trying to beat up on Tim at all. <!-- I belive in him and his company!!!!!!!!!!!!! -->
With that said I was looking to get an Idea of life, It was answered
Thanks for your help
Tim I've been in contact about a motor purchase.
Wayne
With that said I was looking to get an Idea of life, It was answered
In a daily driver with the appropriate maintenance and the occasional hard mud run I'd be willing to bet you'd get at least as much life out of it as you'd get from a factory motor but with twice the performance. That of course assumes no FOD from ingesting something other than A/F mixture into the cylinders.
Tim I've been in contact about a motor purchase.
Wayne
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,416
Likes: 4
From: PacNW
I didn't think you were dissing Tim, I just know he's not 1 to blow his own horn so to speak and he's very careful about staying within the rules of the forum so I thought I'd throw in a plug for him.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
Edelbrock Intake Test
Well I would not have bet this way, but the old Edelbrock performer did pretty good. And with a 650 Holley.
4 pulls
HP 387-387-388-387 @ 4800 RPM
Torque 457-462-460-458
Repeats well also.
I'm tempted to try the Weiand again and see is the engine loosening up and could that be the gain? When all is said and done I want to put a spreadsheet together to show Torque and HP at each RPM. The software on my dyno is difficult in that way.
4 pulls
HP 387-387-388-387 @ 4800 RPM
Torque 457-462-460-458
Repeats well also.
I'm tempted to try the Weiand again and see is the engine loosening up and could that be the gain? When all is said and done I want to put a spreadsheet together to show Torque and HP at each RPM. The software on my dyno is difficult in that way.