Hi all -

I am a regular on the 48-60 Truck Forum, but my 56 Effie has a 351C and I have a questions better suited here.
The engine is a 351C with 2V heads, a Comp Cam 268H cam and Comp Cam lifters and springs. I bought it 2 years ago as a remanufactured motor from Recon in Pennsylvania. It came with the cam, lifters and springs already installed and warranteed. I added an Edelbrock 600 cfm carb, Performer manifold and a Mallory Magnetic Pulse distributor. It ran great for a year and a half. I LOVE this motor!

#1 cylinder now has a dead miss in it that began only when cold (then would go away at temp) and now is all the time. There are no vacuum leaks, compression checks good and I have good spark. My thoughts on diagnosing the problem is that it is probably a collapsed lifter - perhaps a bent pushrod. I plan to replace my lifters and check the pushrods while I'm at it. My engine book says that can be done by removing the valve covers and intake manifold. That looks fairly simple.

QUESTIONS:
1. Would you agree that the lifter is the probable cause? Or should I consider something else first?
2. My book shows 2 gaskets on each head with the valley pan in there also, but doesn't show the layering of them. Is it head - gasket - valley pan - gasket - manifold? Do you use the rubber rope gaskets at each end? Do you add silicone sealer when placing any of these? Where? Any other tips on the installation?
3. I haven't had the valve covers off of a 351C before. How do you prefer to seal them back to ensure no leaking?

Thanks

Randy Jack

 

I would check the resistance on that plug wire. If its ok I would try another spark plug if you havent already done so. If it was a bad lifter I would think you would hear some noise when it's running.

 

I agree with mark a about the plug wire or plug first. But if you think it's a lifter you don't need to take the heads off at all. The valve covers do have to go but other than that just unbolt your intake and pull( I'll assume you know to take the vaccum lines and distibutor and such off first). There are two end gaskets on the intake which need to be there just use a little silicone where they meet the vally pan. As for the valve cover gaskets, they are cheap enough to just go ahead and replace them. Especially if they've been on for awhile. That way you avoid the leak problem all together

 

Mark and Stretch -

I have replaced both the spark plug and the wire. So, that ain't it.
I don't have any noticeable noise from the lifter.

I especially need and answer to question #2, i.e.: the layering of the intake manifold gaskets.

The only other explanation for a possible cause of the miss that I have heard has been a crack in the head (from chamber to exhaust port), but that doesn't make sense to me because the compression is good.

The engine has less than 10,000 miles on it.

Really need some help here. I don't want to take the engine apart if I don't have to, but have tried everything else that I can think of.

 

you said no vacumn leaks but you could have one under the intake manifold into the lifter gallery. As far as the lifter thats an easy check pull the valve cover is one of the rockers is loose there is your problem if they are tight, and correct adjustment the your problem is not the lifter or the pushrod, and you don't need to follow that coarse any farther, but you could have a lobe that is flat on the cam, check this by pulling the valve cover, and turning the engine over without starting it, and see if the rockers move the same as the rest.
Also I never use end gaskets, I always use a bead of rtv, and the valley pan is not a requirement on these engines if you don't want to use that type of gasket go with a good felpro intake gasket, and forget the valley pan.

 

What do you mean by miss ? pop back through the intake ? out the exaust ?

 

i agree with monsterbaby if you have noise pull the valve covers look for any visable broken pieces if you see nothing turn the motor over by hand (I call a 3/4 inch drive ratched by hand) and watch all your rockers go up and down if you have a flat lobe you will notice that rocker isnt traveling as far as the others or a collapsed lifter also i'm right in the middle of a flat lobe and a collapsed lifter problem myselfand i only have about a hundred mile on my 292 comp cam

 

Randy,Can't really bring answers to your questions but hopefully you can assist me. I read your post reply to Cam for 351c and really like what you said about your engine. I was wondering if you had a list of ingredients for that engine. I'm working on a 351c rebuild and I like horsepower and fuel economy. realizing you give up one to have another. Right the engine is still at the machine shop being bore over 30. It's going in my 65 f-100 pick-up. You seem very knowlegable in this matter, so any information you could provide would help me.

 

1965Blue -

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

My truck came with a very tired 351C in it. The replacement 351C was purchased from an engine remanufacturing Company called Recon in Pennsylvania (thru Kraagen Auto Parts). It is a stock 351C with 2V heads at .030 over bore. I had Recon add a Comp Cam #32-221-3 cam (268H grind, 218 duration @ .050, .494 lift) and Comp Cam hydraulic lifter and spring kit. The engine has a noticable idle, but is not a radical lope. I have side-dump pipes with 2-chamber Flowmasters, so it's pretty loud.

I added an Edelbrock #1406 4-barrel carburator (600 cfm), an Edelbrock #2750 Performer manifold, a Mallory Magnetic Pulse Distributor with mechanical advance, an Accell "Fireball" coil, Taylor "Spiro" 8mm plug wires, (and some chrome dress-up stuff)

If I were to do it over, I would keep everything the same except I would put the Pertronics module into the stock distributor instead of buying the Mallory. I like the Mallory very much, it performs well and it came well recommended, but I have heard excellent reviews of the Pertronics units and that option would be much cheaper ($70 vs. $325).

My truck came with headers on the old 351C. They were pitted and rusted badly, so I had them ceramic coated. I would recommend that highly. They run much cooler and have proved bullet-proof for corrosion. I can't swear to it, but they look like Sanderson headers to me. The primaries are 1 5/8 dia (long tubes), collectors are 3" dia. The collectors are under the plane of the firewall. The headers clear the (Fat Man) Mustang II suspension and steering very well. and are centered in the gap between engine/tranny and frame.

The engine was dyno-tested at 215 hp and 345 ft-lbs torque at the rear wheels (= 300hp at the flywheel).

My philosophy is build the engine strong enough, keep it cool and let it breathe. So, in addition to the breathing above, I heartily recommend a remote oil cooler. I designed some sheet metal brackets to attach mine to the frame under the cab and I ran lines to and from it via a cheapo oil filter adapter I bought thru the Summit catalog.

I also highly recommend using an electric radiator fan (instead of the mechanical one on the front of the engine). I did this and the engine NEVER overheats. It runs consistently between 170 and 200 degrees. My fan is only rated at 1600 cfm. The only time the radiator fan comes on is in stop-and-go traffic. I installed my electric fan initially with a custom radiator shroud. I removed the shroud and just mounted the fan to the radiator and it performed MUCH better. I found that running at freeway speeds, the shroud was actually restricting the air flow thru the radiator. In traffic, the fan itself (without the shroud) cools the engine quickly.

I find my setup to be perfect for my use. My truck is a daily driver and working truck. It is intended to be a cool-looking custom street rod that is a practical truck. It will be set up to tow an RV trailer. It has proved great for everything from hauling cement block to blowing off Hondas (and even a Corvette).

I realize that I gave you a lot more than the engine specs here, but i believe there is a lot more to good performance than just the engine itself. It is a balanced system. Lots of guys at the cruises have impressive (and expensive) engines. But not all of them really perform well.

There is a photo of my engine in my gallery. Hope that helps.

 

Great and believe it's never too much information when you're trying to learn the ropes. I also think you've stated that you have a FMX tranny. Well, so did I and got mixed reveiws on that. I've been told that if you get a good one, it's a strong and reliable tranny. As I stated earlier, I'm your average shade tree in training. I was running high rpms and couldn't figure out why. I have 3.70 gears in the rear. I just had the tranny(FMX) rebuilt and couldn't seem to go over 60 mph without turning 2500-3000 rpms. It sounded like the engine was going to blow. I didn't want that. Everyone I'd talk to say with those gears in the rear it shouldn't do that and they blame the problem on the tranny.(possible slipping) After speaking with several people, they recommended the AOD. I did it. I kept thee FMX though.(in my garage) So, I changed over to an AOD tranny. How much did it cost you (engine) MAybe I should have went the route you went(from the manufacture) Hopefully I'm not boring you, but I really want to enjoy my truck to the max one day and be proud of it. I'll be checking out your pics also. The front end, how much was that? I'm interested in that upgrade as well. Thanks

 

1965Blue -

Yes, I have an FMX tranny and my rear end is a 3.50:1 Ford 9-inch posi. I turn 3300-3500 rpm on the freeway. Yes, it's a little higher than I want. No, the tranny isn't slipping. That's what happens with a low rear end. I would love to go to an AOD, like you. That's the best of all worlds. Good grunt off the light and lower freeway rpm.

The engine cost (2 years ago) was around $2100 (incl shipping) with the cam, lifters and springs installed by Recon and it came with a 1-year unlimited mileage warrantee.

Are you asking about the Mustang II IFS when you say "front end"? That was installed in the truck when I bought it 2 years ago. That was one of the reasons I bought it. The truck had a lot of the hard work upgrades in it.

From the sound of it, you'll be very happy with the setup you have.

 

Lucky you with all the extras. Thanks for your input. Hopefully, you will see my truck soon.