Why, oh why, does it seem so difficult for so many fans of synthetic oil (especially Amsoil) to accept the FACT that $1.40/qt Havoline/Chevron/Motorcraft/etc. conventional oil will go 5,000 miles (and more), and turn out as-good-as, often better, UOA numbers (especially wear metals) than synthetic.

It is too easy to ignore the fact that there are MANY vehicles with >200,00 miles, >300,000 miles, all on conventional oil.

responding to BH Pete's questions:

#1 - Yes I see a trend here. there is no need to change your oil every 3000 miles. The same companies who are recommending 5000 mile oil changes do not specify the need to use synthetic oil in order to provide adequate oil service life out to 5000 miles. Conventional oil is good enough!!

#2 - My truck runs as good at 152,000 miles as it did at 52 miles. I expect it will be running as good at 200,000 miles as it did at 200. It has received a steady diet of conventional 10W30. So there! (with 5000 mile drain intervals)

#3 - I don't know, I don't care if my oil has a warranty. I could probably live 5 lifetimes and never experience an oil related failure. Question for you: Have YOU ever experienced a bona-fide oil related failure?

#4 - Maybe you should try it. It's good stuff. They advertise direct to the public. You can buy it at numerous retail outlets. It is reasonably priced. Purchasing Penzoil does not involve a multi-level marketing organization.



edit to add: Hmmmm. 3 posts......
Is duck hunting season about to open?

 

That's what I was thinking. It's not really fair, though, it's too easy. It's more like target practice.



BTW, I read on International's website last year about a PSD with over 1 million miles that was run on dino oil. If you can make it that far on dino, I'll stick with my Shell Rotalla T dino oil. 173K so far and running strong.

 

Uhhh....You mean like a "sitting duck" ?

 

Here is a URL with the Scamsoil products that are API certified, not many!!!

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseI...LicenseNo=0995

 

I use it, and am happy with it, I guess Im just lucky that there is a store about two blocks down the street where all this old geezer sells is AMS oil, I just give him a fake phone number everytime Im in there to put in his little computer.....

Bottom line is I hate their marketing scheme too, its horrible, but I dont bash them by calling them "scamsoil", because quite frankly I dont see the scam? make your own decisions about drain intervals, dont pay attention to the hype if you dont believe it, would I go 25 or 35K on any oil? NO WAY, especially not just because the company that sells said product says, does that make it a bad product? No.

 

As I understand it, the purpose of this forum is for education and helpful input? With this in mind it has come to my attention that the API rating is partaly correct, but like misleading car and political adds, sometimes we have to dig for more information to formulate an educated opinion! Amsoils website addresses this concern, so I will take the "look the definition up yourself ave." I would rather you find it yourself than believe anything that you are told from a stranger! It is not that they can not qualify for an API rating, it has more to do with the fact that API rating is based on mineral basestocks, not synthetic.(apples to oranges) Testing cost,basestock sources, royalties, time to recoup cost,etc. While you are busy "educating" yourselves, look up the Magnuson-Moss Act. This basically says that if Brand X says that not using thier juce in thier machine will void the warrenty,then BrandX HAS to supply the juice!

BTW- do you supose the OEM's frown more on performance computer tuning or extended drain intervals?

Why is it that the Europeans run 10,000 mile oil change intervals but the oil companies do not sell the same product here?

To address the origonal question of extended drain intervalls being cost effective, you need to do the math! And look at the whole picture!

Conventional oil-25,000 miles driven, changed every 5,000 miles=5 oil changes @ 6 qts. @ $20 @ Quick Lube= $100+about 2.5 hours down time. As a bonus you have contributed 30 qts. of waste oil!
Amsoil 0w-30-25,000miles driven, 8 qts of oil(filter change and burn-off) @ $6 a qt.(Rounded up), 2 Amsoil filters @ $10 each, labor for filter and oil change-$30.00=$98.00,But wait,I only had an hour of down time compared to your 2.5!
Amsoil 7500 (if you are not comfortable going 25,000 miles on the same oil) 1 case around $40,2 filters @ $20, labor on 2 oil changes @ $40(again figured high)=$100, OK we are monetarily even here, but I only lost 1 hour compared to your 2.5!
Now lets talk Diesel(Please correct me if I am wrong on my numbers?)
Can you get a PSD changed for less than $60? if you change @ 5,000 miles over 25,000 miles= $300, plus at least 2.5 hour down time! Plus, you introduced 80 qts of oil to be recycled! What a waste!
Amsoil(again figuring high) 20 qts @ $5 qt.=$100+ 2 filters @ $15 each and we are at $130, and being the generous guy that I am I will pay $70 in labor.=$200 and 1 hour of down time over 25,000 miles. I am up by $100 and 1.5 hous!
BTW-DO they sell time at Wall-Mart?Frankly I have better things to do than shop at Wall-Mart! I would rather order on-line in my robe and have UPS delever to my door, than stand in line! But if that is your thing than more power to you!
Nobody asked about MLM, the question was directed at the product and its merits! Remember, opinions are like back-sides, everybody has one!
My hope is that this has perhaps brought up a differant way to look at things?

 

Pete,
My practice: 5 oil changes in 25,000 miles = $12/change = $60 total.
It takes me about 10 mins to do an oil change so I'm out in less than an hour.
I do not consider an hour under my truck every 25,000 miles as "down time". It is investment time. It lets me keep tabs on what all is going on under my truck. Any leaks? anything loose? etc.
I don't own a robe. I do own dirty old jeans and greasy t-shirts.

Many of us here have seen the MM act brought up before. I don't think it has yet swayed anyone on their opinion of Amsoil.

Aren't Mobile1 and other major synthetic oils API certified? But wait, Amsoil has the "real" answer about why (some) Amsoil isn't API certified.

I have spent 5 years "educating" myself here, and elsewhere, and believe I have learned a lot. No where near a know-it-all, but I know alot more than I did 5 years ago.

What have I learned? One thing for sure:
The facts SCREAM for themselves, but some don't hear. Today's conventional oils provide outstanding protection, often bettering the UOA numbers of Amsoil and other synthetics.

But, like a guy once said:

"You are free to go to the website of any product and educate yourself! It is your choice to waste time and money, but ignorance is no excuse!"


I have.
I don't.
I'm not.

 

Brian,

Fair enough. I like you change my own oil, and have for years as I have over 20 year experiance in the automotive field! Maintaining your own rig has it's benifets as does periodic oil anyalasis.I feel that your 10 minute oil change time is somewhat low when you consider all things. Time yourself next time you go to the store for oil, and get out your tools from start to clean-up. Plus dealing with disposal!I can not do a through grease and look-over in ten minutes and I am used to working on commision! I would guess that the majority of the public does not change thier own oil and my Quick-Lube estimate should be fairly realistic!

Exactily how much merit you want to put in the American Petrolium Instatute's rating is entirly up to you! After all it is NOT the American Synthetic Instatute! I doubt that I would get into the AMA without a medical degree? Look into what the folks that do Lubrication publications have to say?

I never knocked conventional oil. I have used it myself for years, and yes you can acomplish the same thing, just be sure to figure your time, money, and waste of recources into the senerio! Where it realy pencils out is on the higher capacity rigs.

We all have to make our own choices based on the information avalable (from multable sources)and how we process it! My objective is not to sway anyone, but to have all information represented fairly, fully, and accuratly as possible!

 

All major vehicle manufacturers require oil to have API certification for their warranty to stay valid, so they must think it is important!!!!

 

If you read the M-M act, it does not allow you to use whatever oil you want in your engine. It allows you to buy oil from sources other than Ford, but Ford has the right to set the standard which in this case is API certification. Royal Purple is a small company, but somehow they managed to pay for API certification so Amsoil's response doesn't hold water. The statements already made regarding API rating are 100% correct, not partially correct.

If you want to know what M-M actually says, not the watered down version often misquoted by aftermarket companies, read this link straight from the Federal government:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm

For the new 6.0 PSD=15 quarts of Shell Rotella T $17.25 every 7500 miles for the regular oil change interval + filter for $13=$100 over 25K miles

15 quarts of Amsoil@$6 quart (your number) + filter for $13=$103 for 25K miles

As you can see, even at 25K miles it is still cheaper to stick with an API certified dino oil, so it doesn't really pencil out. It's imply not worth it to go that long on an oil change in a diesel to begin with. No oil filter will remove diesel fuel from the oil. It's also already been established that Amsoil is a blender in that they don't actually produce their own base stock. They buy this from other sources and blend the oil with their own additives, many of which are at levels that can cause damage to emissions equipment in cars.

Would you go to a doctor that doesn't have a medical degree? Do you think your insurance would pay for it?

BTW, are you an Amsoil dealer or preferred customer?

 

Scamsoil will say all their oils are not API certified because of the cost of certification. They lie!!! The oils that are not certified FAILED API certification, ALL of Royal Purple's oils (FTE sponser, BTW) ARE API certified.

BHPete, same question, what is your affiliation with Scamsoil???

 

I think I can hear that sound in the distance.....
It seems to be getting clearer now.
It appears others are hearing it as well.


Hey Pete,
What's the answer?

 

As a relative "newbie" here I must say this discussion has been fairly civil considering the topic is Amsoil . I'll just put my $.02 in, not that anybody cares . Today's dino oils are excellent and can go 5,000 miles in reasonable type driving. Especially the new GF4/SM oils hitting the market now. In my 30+++ years of driving I've used dino and synthetic oils. Both have their advantages and disadvantages depending upon your driving conditions and circumstances. Currently in my 2002 F-150 I'm using Motorcraft 5W-20 because it's a Group II+ and Group III blend that has shown excellent wear for engines spec'd for it. I've done UOA and for $1.42/quart it's a bargain. Plus with my driving I may not reach 5,000 miles in 6 to 9 months so it's nice to know I'm not "throwing out" expensive oil. And it works real well in extreme cold temps as well as in the summer heat. I do use synthetic in my 4 cyl. car because I drive it like I stole it. My wife's Explorer uses a synthetic oil because she put's lots of miles on it and I don't want to crawl under too often. I'm old and it's cold and nasty outside . I'm running her's up to 10,000 mile oil changes.

Whimsey

 

Cant pete state an opinion without being accused of being a dealer, its wrong to state an opinion on FTE, and a pro amsoil opinion makes him a dealer, guess Im a delaer too then? I dont even frequent this forum, but the ganging up on one person who has a simple positive opinion to interject is silly.

But its okay to say "scamsoil" (over and over again in every post)

my .02 cents, carry on with this very interesting debate.

 

I don't post much (yes a lurker) but I just want to thank you guys for ALL your opinions. I have learned much since I started coming here. Cool site!