Welding Techniques, vertical, overhead ???
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Senior User
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From: Metamora
Welding Techniques, vertical, overhead ???
Just wondering if anyone has any good advice regarding MIG welding on a vertical surface (like a patch panel on a bedside).
I am having a heck of a time with this. The welds are great when the work surface is flat, but anytime the surface is vertical, or worse overhead, I can't get a good puddle and there is no way that i can get the pieces joined. By the time I can get a puddle to form, I usually burn through, or create a grape on the surface of the material.
Any suggestions on wire speed, amperage, gas type (Co2 + Argon mix vs. straight Argon).
I've read some information regarding wire diameter for thinner steels, 22, 24 ga that suggests 0.024 wire. Any thoughts. I've also read about "fast freeze" electrodes for welding overhead, but that was specifically for stick welding.
Any help would be appreciated...
I am having a heck of a time with this. The welds are great when the work surface is flat, but anytime the surface is vertical, or worse overhead, I can't get a good puddle and there is no way that i can get the pieces joined. By the time I can get a puddle to form, I usually burn through, or create a grape on the surface of the material.
Any suggestions on wire speed, amperage, gas type (Co2 + Argon mix vs. straight Argon).
I've read some information regarding wire diameter for thinner steels, 22, 24 ga that suggests 0.024 wire. Any thoughts. I've also read about "fast freeze" electrodes for welding overhead, but that was specifically for stick welding.
Any help would be appreciated...
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 926
Likes: 3
From: SE, Michigan
I have the same problem, mostly when welding overhead (upside down). It seems to want to ball up or drip on me. Which I really hate when it does that. I use .023 solid wire with the CO2/argon mix. Hopefully someone else can give us some good advice.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 999
Likes: 1
From: Willamette Valley Oregon
<cr>
Been welding about 38 years. My advise is...
Practice
Sorry. There is no magic formula or secret setting. Start with heavier matter so you don't get burn-thru. Work on your technique. Then progress to thinner material.
You might want to try downhand on your vertical panels. Make short welds (< 1") and then skip to a cool part of the panel.
If all else fails, you can spot weld. Click, cool, click, cool. With this technique, you can easily fill in a 1" gap, on 18 gauge steel. By the way, I'm not recommending filling a 1" gap but it's doable.
I did just read some information on some welding wire made for sheetmetal. The brand name was Sixteen Gauge, Ten Gauge, or something like that. It is a flux core wire that also uses a shielding gas. I saw some pictures of the welding process. It cut down on the burn-thrus. You might want to check with a welding supply store.
Been welding about 38 years. My advise is...
Practice
Sorry. There is no magic formula or secret setting. Start with heavier matter so you don't get burn-thru. Work on your technique. Then progress to thinner material.
You might want to try downhand on your vertical panels. Make short welds (< 1") and then skip to a cool part of the panel.
If all else fails, you can spot weld. Click, cool, click, cool. With this technique, you can easily fill in a 1" gap, on 18 gauge steel. By the way, I'm not recommending filling a 1" gap but it's doable.
I did just read some information on some welding wire made for sheetmetal. The brand name was Sixteen Gauge, Ten Gauge, or something like that. It is a flux core wire that also uses a shielding gas. I saw some pictures of the welding process. It cut down on the burn-thrus. You might want to check with a welding supply store.
Last edited by Aekisu; Dec 9, 2004 at 01:01 PM.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,557
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From: Texas
I beleive you need to turn up the wire speed a bit when welding on vertical or overhead. I had the same problem when I first started.
75/25 argon mix with bare wire would be the best choice for sheetmetal because the welds are cleaner and require less effort to clean up and sand.
You also need to practice using two hands. One hand on the gooseneck the other on the wrok supporting your other wrist. Once the arc starts, start moving the tip in deliberate motions from side to side, spreading the heat across both panels. If you just try to run straight down, the heat will be too concentrated on the ege of the panel and burn through.
Limit your welds to about 1/8" 'stitches' and move around the panel to minimize warping. I also like to hammer the surfaces even after each round of stitches to helpkeep the panels even and straight.
75/25 argon mix with bare wire would be the best choice for sheetmetal because the welds are cleaner and require less effort to clean up and sand.
You also need to practice using two hands. One hand on the gooseneck the other on the wrok supporting your other wrist. Once the arc starts, start moving the tip in deliberate motions from side to side, spreading the heat across both panels. If you just try to run straight down, the heat will be too concentrated on the ege of the panel and burn through.
Limit your welds to about 1/8" 'stitches' and move around the panel to minimize warping. I also like to hammer the surfaces even after each round of stitches to helpkeep the panels even and straight.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,493
Likes: 346
From: SE Iowa
First off, what welder are you running? If its a 120V unit your pretty much stuck dragging the wire. If its a 230V or 440V welder you push the wire. Usually welding overhead requires bumping up the wire feed. I know that may sound weird, but that's how its done. Like stated, LOTS of practice. On vertical welds, NEVER drag the wire from top to bottom. You will get little to no penetration. I've seen the x-ray'd and cut samples and its not pretty. This could be a major safety concern. If your running a 120V running verts, I wish you luck. I've not had much luck getting them to look good, and I've been a welder for over 13yrs. Thats why I just saved my money and bought a 300amp Miller. Best money I've ever spent. Good luck!
Stryder
Stryder
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 999
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From: Willamette Valley Oregon
Originally Posted by stryder
On vertical welds, NEVER drag the wire from top to bottom. You will get little to no penetration. I've seen the x-ray'd and cut samples and its not pretty.
Stryder
Stryder
I believe he was talking about patch panels. Penetration isn't an issue.
And...
I disagree on the weld quality, when welding downhand. Your statement certainly applies to stick welding (excluding stick specially made for downhand welding) or flux core because of slag inclusion. On a standard MIG unit though, slag is at a minumum. With a hot setting, proper technique and proper conditions (thin metal), downhand is a correct procedure. Certainly though, uphand welding should be used when structual issues are involved.
Last edited by Aekisu; Dec 9, 2004 at 06:33 PM.
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Senior User
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From: Metamora
I'm using a 120V welder. My understanding is that dragging the wire results in a weld with deeper penetration due to the fact that the welder is heating up the area for a longer period of time, while push technique will result in a weld with less penetration but wider... this all makes some sense for thicker stock, but with sheetmetal, I just want to make sure that the puddle stays on the surface of the material but at the same time, I don't burn through. Thanks for all of your input. Back to practicing. I've only been at this for around 3 years and have been gathering info that I can from books, the web and practicing.
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Elder User
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From: Peoria IL
I welded in patch panels on my rear fender with a stick welder. WOW! that was a btch. I couldnt hold the stick down for more than 4 or 5 seconds or it would burn through.
I found that I can get a better weld vertically from top to bottom with no flux mig.
Just depends on your tekneke and lots of practice.
I found that I can get a better weld vertically from top to bottom with no flux mig.
Just depends on your tekneke and lots of practice.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 401
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From: indiana
the correct way to weld a vertical with mig is to use triangles.
and there is a vertical down mig for thin metals!
welding has all sorts of tricks. takes a lifetime to learn and an eternity to perfect. you show me a perfect welder and ill show you the biggest liar on this planet.
oh yea for you that think i dont know what im talking about i have an associates in welding an associates in applied science a production welder for 3 years and boilermaker for 3 currently happy with the ironworkers and still welding
and there is a vertical down mig for thin metals!
welding has all sorts of tricks. takes a lifetime to learn and an eternity to perfect. you show me a perfect welder and ill show you the biggest liar on this planet.
oh yea for you that think i dont know what im talking about i have an associates in welding an associates in applied science a production welder for 3 years and boilermaker for 3 currently happy with the ironworkers and still welding
Last edited by nixer; Dec 12, 2004 at 05:45 PM.
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