I have been in the process of building my 66 swb. Found that over the years battery acid and rust has led to a severly damaged frame. I have access to a 78 f150 and was wondering if a frame swap is possible and if so would it be a simple bolt on exchange?
Rob

 

Rob, It would be an excellent choice, and would already come with disc brakes and power steering. You will have to work with the bed end. Ford added length to the chassis in 73 behind the rear cab mounts. The wheel base is a little longer too. I call that the dumb end of the truck because you don't have to deal with the steering angles.

John

 

Rob,
My 66 SWB C/C sits on a 79 F150 Frame/Chassis and it's exactly as John above says. The frame is slightly longer and slightly wider in what is referred to as the C-A which means the Cab to Axle area, but the rest is a virtual bolt down deal, which is what John is talking about.

I fudged the bed a tad to "hide" the length difference, which is easy with the teardrop rear wheel opening. The bed mounting holes must be redrilled to accomodate the upgrade, and you will need to do something about the Fuel Tank Filler Neck in the rear. Use BodyMount Insulators that fit the body & don't worry about the frame, they will conform to it by weight alone.

Also get a reciept that says "Used Replacement Frame Assy" & shows the VIN of the "replacement Frame. If you can get such a receipt from an Auto Salvage Yard it's best. Treat the frame swap as a "Repair", include photos of the existing frame damage caused by your battery and validate the need for a frame repair/ replacement from a mechanical standpoint.

State laws can prevent you from mixing & mathcihg parts to "create" one offs, but they can not prevent anybody from "repairing" a vehicle which is demonstratbly in an Unsafe condition. I realize front frame horn under battery tray is not technically a structural part requiring great integrity, and could be repaired by cutting it out etc etc But the point is validating the Upgrade to satisfy statutes written by politicians not Automotive Engineers, so proof will win your case if it ever comes to that point.

There are numerous advantages IMHO over the earlier frame/chassis such as all the later technologies, the wider rear stance, the fuel tank being out of the cab & in the rear under the bed, & on & on. In my case I used a trailer Special F150 which in effect would be a short WB, F250 Chassis, if they ever made SWB F250s. SO I have thicker rails,bigger brakes better suspension, had dual Fuel Tanks and so forth.


I'll write more later if you need more, or you can PM/ E-Mail me, or research Archives here for more.
FBp

 

What Irks me with this project is I had convinced my oldest son, who teaches Video Production @ High School & Comm College level to help me make a couple videos of some of the more complex alt's-mod'-retro's & upgrades that really improve our mid 20th century "Slicks".

After all, our trucks are a product of 1950s design & engineering principles & were produced as 1960s models. Technology has evolved since then. True our "Toys" have unmatched style & character, but they also have a few very primitive technologies compared to what's available now.

Many of these upgrades put our 40+ year old "great Trucks" right smack into the 21st century. I had frame/ chassis & Body Swap as 1st, another was P/S Conversion, P-D/B Retros, installing out of cab- in frame, fuel tank system with filler pocket & door, Converting the "M-T" space where tank used to be, to functional space-Tunes-Storage etc & last but not least, chopping top enough to make truck less like a Fish Bowl, sportier, and lower profile Plus have less drag coefficient ( wind resistence) also.

But being a Dad one has to acommodate ones' offspring 1st. He decided to finally get a divorce from his "Ex" (a good move) and get custody of my teenage Granddaughter. He went back to an old Top 40 & classic Rockband they had during HS, to fill time. As fate would have it, they played 25th HS reunion, "Homecoming Gala" Last year ('03).
He met up with his old HS Sweetheart. They decided to get married after all of these years (they shoulda done it 25 years ago IMHO). Anyway, this has taken a year now. They're still busy being "newly weds". I'm really, truly glad the way that "Soap Opera" worked out for them, Honestly. I know that's what's really important in life too.

BUT. . . I want to do the Video Series because I think it has a place in the world too.
I also think it could help support a few other projects I'd like to complete dealing with Slicks, Hot Rods and other great performance issues. Patience and tolerance are what it takes. I have another video i was part of. in production, dealing WWII Warbirds for a Naval Air Station Museum I work with restoring WW II FIghters etc.

Oh Well, just venting & lamenting here sorry. . . .

FBp

 

I'm still plugging away at my swap (66 3/4 ton lwb onto 76 high boy chassis) - some pictures are up at my <A HREF="http://www.markdevaney.com/truck.">web site</A>, email if you need any measurements, etc.
http://www.markdevaney.com/truck.

-- Mark

 

O.k. how much longer is the 78 frame and will this be a difficult swap? Oh yeah, what does IMHO mean
Rob

 

thanx for that question re IMHO, Rob. I've been wondering the same for a long time.

 

A 66 SWB is 117" O/C, 73-79s are +2inches more from 117" to 119" O/C [On Center] also 73 thru 79s are +3" wider at the CA. from 34" to 37" OA[over all]

And OOoops!. . . . . .Sorry Guys, IMHO= In My Honest Opinion. . .
It's not a disclaimer, it's an endorsement of something based on someones opinion. Another IMO = [in my opinion]

FWIW [FWIW= For What It's Worth] some opinions are FACT based and some opinions are BELIEF based. Only by doing a little actual, factual, research will ya come to know which is what. . . .

IMHO, FWIW, BTW (by the way) Are some common acronyms from Text Messaging on cell phones & eMails etc rather than writing words out every time, which my "kids" & others have taught me . . . . sorry I didn't think, it's sort of a habit to me now. . .

LOL laugh out loud, but "ROTFLMAO" is the real test of imagination IMHO
FBp

 

Pete,
Thanks for the info! When you say that you "fudged a bit", how did it turn out. Do you have any pictures?
Rob

 

It's an aesthetic thing Rob.
I slid it a bit this way and then a tad that way & when it looked "right", I marked it and that's where It's bolted down to the CA Rails with new bolt holes etc. Like I said It's blended in and not really "noticeable" to even Slick 60's affecinados.

Now somebody with a ruler can catch me.
Or if I try to go to an AACA Concours D'elegance exrtavaganza show I'd get caught, but most folks don't even pick up on my fuel filler door in side of the bed. So much for attention to detail, and accuracy in replication etc etc. . . huh?

What I'm saying is it's easy to "blend out a 2" difference.
Some folks say whack rear of frame 2", which does NO GOOD at all because 2 inches happens between the axles. Others say cut 2 inches out of the frame, but I prefer to retain the structural integrity of an uncut frame. Especially with the 460 and with the way I seem to hammer on my Slick.
Like I say, tear drop shape of rear wheel openings are very forgiving IMHO.

I've some film pictures somewhere, but no Digi Pix I can easily send via on line. I don't know where they are though. . . .to many hands in the house here. . . .

Didja figure out ROTFLMAO yet?

The Answer is that buttless little Icon rolling on the floor laughing my[his] a$$ off!

FBp

 

Ahhh Mr. Pete, fudging on bed and axle placement is one thing, but the chassis rails are 4" longer starting in 73. Are ye using an extra wide top on a step bumper to cover the rest of the rails poking out the rear?

I had a 66 and a 76 chassis side by side and measured them. I couldn't make the geometry work in my head and used the 66 instead. Now with the education that I have gotten from here and own my own, I'd work with the 76 chassis if I could do it over.

John

 

John. . . . HuH???
I don't have any "wuxtry" rails poking out John. If you're saying I should have 2 more inches sticking out below my tailgate?. I don't.
So are you tellin' me total, overall, frame rail from front tip to rear tip is plus 4.0" longer than 65-66 F100/ F150 is? Or rails in C-A area are/ should be +4.0 inches longer on 73-79s? I only measured from rear cab mounts back. I thought I read +2". I put about 1/2 of difference between my cab rear wall & bed bulkhead then other 1/2 under tailgate area. That way my wheel fits the Opening better & looks best, to me.

I do have a bit more space between headboard & rear cab wall, about .75" more than OEM. It's 2.250" to 2.375" inches or so of gap. Also My rear X member is right at edge of my tailgate, not tucked under like OEM 66 is, but my T/G works fine. I can't whack that because my rear mounted, in frame, fuel tank is right there & mounting straps are anchored to it.

I had to use a 79 rear bumper & brackets because of width difference thing. My rear bumper is not as close as my OEM 66 was. It seems to stand off about .75 to 1.0 inch or so more than OEM. It's not really odd enough to grab peoples attention tho'.

I've a annoying gap @ front stone/gravel pan forward to bumper I can't do anything about it 'cause bumper uses rail end for it's mounting bracket. It's .875" or almost 1.0" inch wide. I thought it was attribuitable to shorter, narrower, stone shield on 66. I had thought of adding an edge off another stone shield but can't bring myself to cut one up, if/when I find them.

I don't think I measured overall frame rail length. I already knew 65 & up cab would bolt on a 73- 79 frame because I'd helped a guy mount "one way back when". It went very well. I never gave it a thought after doing it that time. I have done a few and never had wound up with frame sticking out tho.

I've dealt with different WB's it's always "fun" [not]. It gets really tricky with Super Cabs/ Crew Cabs w/ short stylesides, Crews w/flaresides & Duallies. They are different, make no sense and are a challenge compared to straight up, straight forward styleside Pick Ups.[IMHO I have'nt done any flareside std Pick Ups yet, I can remember. I think there'll be issues with rear frame rail width & length there. Flaresides are not all the same contrary to some folks common belief. I'm not sure how I'd treat fuel filler neck either, on a flareside conversion.

What I really want to have & try is a SWB Integral Bed onto a 73-79 SWB chassis.

I had 1 & let it get away after cloning most of a 64 Galaxie 500 XL 2Dr Sport H/T into it, including a 335hp, Premium Fuel, 390, a 73 C-6, P-Car 9" rear w/ F Series Axles, and the 64 GAlaxie gut w/ bucket seats & console & modified door panels. It was different asnd sort of neat BUT. . . .

After all that it didn't handle with single I-Beam "bump steer" characteristics & all that power, especially here in our BiKiNi StAtE "showers". It was a white knuckle ride in the rain. Like a fool I got rid of it, bought a 73, which I wound up giving away in a divorce a few years later anyway. I would not have lost my Integral bed because she'd no interest in it, 'cept maybe hatred for it. . .

Oh Well, Too Soon Old too Late Smart, huh?.

FBp

 

Pete, I'm digging around in 5 years of memory mush, dust, and clutter, so bare wid me. I had a 66F100 lwb chassis and a 76 F150 lwb chassis sitting side by side, both had wheels and tires but nothing on the chassis. I wanted to use the 76 chassis to build a truck on. I got hung up in vertical measurements and just decided it wouldn't work. Back then no one was even talking about using a later chassis. I didn't want bed, cab, front clip misaliegnments. I found the support holes the same width, same back to the front cab mounts, same to the rear cab mounts, but about 4" difference in the total chassis length. I had no one to bounce ideas around with so I stripped and discarded the 76 chassis.


I started carpentering in the late 60s so I can handle a 25ft 1" wide measuring tape with confidence. I said that to let ya know I wasn't using one of those 8ft 1/4" wide whimpy thangs.

I know that Ford added space to the rear of the cab in 73. The floor pans are identical from 65 to 72 and the same plus a flat piece added to the back in 73. That splains the extra length to me that I found on the rail measurement. The rails were widened behind the cab so bed mounting holes are different between pre and post 73 beds.

I am having trouble trying to figure how fudging deals with that much extra metal without something like a very large step on the rear.

I'm sure it is something simple that I have overlooked.

John

 

John,
There's +2" difference between axle centers in 117 up to a 119 wheelbase, right? I know there is +3" in the 73 up cab floor, but mounts are still the same 66-79, right?
I also know there is an inch extra after the rear shackle bracket in 73-79s. I believe you measured +4", extra, overall. It is 1 extra inch in front, or ahead of support core. So I inch ahead of the support core in the front frame horns, and 1 inch in rear behind rear rear spring perch,plus +2inches of wheelbase equals the +4 inches we're talking about I presume.

I believe you'll find distance from support core mount up front, to cab mount in rear is same as 66,right? So there are +2" in wheelbase between axle centers, which appear in C-A, or between rear cabwall back to the rear axle centerline, right? If I add that 1
extra inch at rear, after rear shackle bracket, that makes up for the +3" difference in cab length. It's +2" of WB +1" of frame rear length, or 1+2 = +3" yea? If I add 1 more
wuxtry inch stickin out ahead of support core thus 3"+1" = +4" total. . . . Nay?

I admit I never measured rails overall so I'm takin' your word they are +4". I do not doubt that measurement, because as I also mentioned both my front & rear bumpers seem to stand off a tad too much, or a tad more than OEM Stock. BUT in 17+ ft or so of truck, +/-2 wuxtry inches, after +2 inches of wheelbase aren't much at all.

A '66, styleside, SWB, model, bed is 80.25', and a '79 is 82.25" OAD [overall, outside, dimension] measured across top of bed, outside of bulkhead to outside of tail gate. If
measured down windsplit to outside of tail light housing panel, a 66 is 82.25in. while a 79 is 84.25" OAD. I call "indent style-line" of 79 & splice line of upper/lower bedside panels of 66 Windsplits. Both are MOL center of respective bedside panels.

How I know this is so is, I've been struggling with possibility of cloning 66 bedside to 79 bed assy. But in all this math,in the end, it's only 2 inches of difference between 66 & 79 in bed length and only 3 " difference in frame after rear cab mounts.

I will get some Digi Pictures of both bedsides with a tape to scale it so you can see what I'm talking about. I believe it when you say there are +4 inches of difference. But again, I've never measured frame rails overall/ tip to tip. I've only ever measured it from holes to holes, aka support core to front cab mount to rear cab mount, because they are the "controls" to me.

Once I determined nose, or "front clip" would fit & align, I figured to adjust/ fudge whatever else I had to deal with. That'd be fitting & positioning bed, then trimming out with my bumpers and stone shields. Since you are a "wood bender" too, those parts, bumpers & stone shields, in my way of thinking are like trim or "mouldings to "cover" my
dimensional "sins & errors" so to speak.

I need to get someone to help me with Pix because I can't hold my tape & camera at the same time. And, if it's okay to you, I'll FWD pix to NCFTO via E-Mail rather than try to post them here on FTE. It's much easier for me.

FWIW. this stuff of the "nit" is exactly why I want to do those videos I been trying to get done. Guess I need to get my own camcorder & start doing it myself 'cause it only seems only important me or to other interested Slick owners, huh?
Same thing on top chopping a smidgeon, just to reduce fishbowl effect & clean up the lines a tad. ALso Fabricating fuel filler pocket, door & guard panel after a rear fuel tank upgrade.

Today we got to take the wings off a WW II, Douglas, SBD Fighter plane that blew an engine here & needs to get back to Peachtree City, GA. by truck since it doesn't fly anymore. It's 1 of 2 left that fly. . . . A rare piece of equipment fo' sho.

We'll get to the bottom of this "fudging thing tho, John"..... I promise.
FBp

 

Mornin Pete, I'll be happy to host any photos on NCFTO.org.

Let's split this further, Wheelbase...Below the rails. I agree it is different and can be adjusted, regardless of what is bolted on top of the rails. I have never moved or adjusted a wheelbase so I feel I have nothing to offer but an opinion, but that has never slowed me in the past, huh. I believe that new mount holes could be made in the rails, spring hangers bolted back with grade 8 bolts, and a new wheelbase measurement created. Agree??

Body placement mounting holes... I do not recall there being any difference in measurements from the front of the horns (where the front bumper attaches) to the first set of holes (where the radiator support attaches) to the next set of holes (where the front cab mount bolts attach) to the rear cab mount holes between the two chassis. The difference that I recall was behind the rear cab mount holes. All of the three sets of holes are about 1.5" in diameter so that fudging can be done where needed.

I don't have a chassis available to me at present to measure. When taking measurements, I would lay a straight edge across the hole centers so that I could maintain straight down the rail measurements.

I am old enough to never say never, and if you tell me I am wrong, I just have to except it until I can measure another chassis. This I can promise ya, with it being in the 20s this morning, your measurements can be used. lol

John