front axle ideas
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,268
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From: Eureka, Ca.
Strange need for attention?
All I did was give my opinion. Then you and Ivan promtly bit off my head. and made me out as some ignorent person. You know nothing about me so back off. Just don't reply to anything I post and will all be happy.
All I did was give my opinion. Then you and Ivan promtly bit off my head. and made me out as some ignorent person. You know nothing about me so back off. Just don't reply to anything I post and will all be happy.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 3
From: Centerville, Iowa
Never realized he was blind.
Randy, it's a good thing that we have people like Cutts, Ivan, Pro, Rob, etc to correct on things. Their incredible amount of knowledge on things is great to pick at, and when somebody makes a wrong point or says the wrong thing (As you have before) at least they are there to clean up and point out the right thing. Ball joint is weaker then Kingpin? True. Will it be cheaper to go to the Kingpin 60 in the first place? Debatable. Simple as that. Pro, Ivan, and others are just trying to save other builders from potentially having problems. Ball joins are not a labor-friendly task. And Kingpins only introduce the potential for death wobble, which after being shimmed - bye bye DW!
I think it'd be an injustice to those of us still learning (as you have also, remember) if one of these guys saw you post an inaccurate bit of information without correcting it. I don't want to be lied to.
Randy, it's a good thing that we have people like Cutts, Ivan, Pro, Rob, etc to correct on things. Their incredible amount of knowledge on things is great to pick at, and when somebody makes a wrong point or says the wrong thing (As you have before) at least they are there to clean up and point out the right thing. Ball joint is weaker then Kingpin? True. Will it be cheaper to go to the Kingpin 60 in the first place? Debatable. Simple as that. Pro, Ivan, and others are just trying to save other builders from potentially having problems. Ball joins are not a labor-friendly task. And Kingpins only introduce the potential for death wobble, which after being shimmed - bye bye DW!
I think it'd be an injustice to those of us still learning (as you have also, remember) if one of these guys saw you post an inaccurate bit of information without correcting it. I don't want to be lied to.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,268
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From: Eureka, Ca.
Sorry if you feel as thogh I was lying to this guy. I don't mind people dissagreeing with me. I just don't appreaceate all the derogatory things that are being said about me. There are people on both sides of this issue I am by no means the only one that feels this way. No one has shown definitive physical evidence that the BJ is a weak axle. NO it is not as strong as a KP but is it so weak that I should be dissparaged this way?
Never let one persons opinion make up your mind. Maybe I should put that in my signature
.
Never let one persons opinion make up your mind. Maybe I should put that in my signature
.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: tacoma-wa
well i no that i would never go for a ball joint axle over one with king pins, i know of plenty of people and myself who hate dealing with ball joints, they are weaker, they are also much more of a pain in the *** in my opinion to change than kp's
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,945
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From: Spokane, WA
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Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,155
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From: Centerville, Iowa
All this talk about D60's and their cost...makes me kinda sad. Why? I could have bought a 78 With D60 4.10's front and rear. Whole truck was ready to wheel after a C6 replacement. It had a 351M too. How much? 200 bucks for the truck. Better go call him! lol
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 861
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From: Marysville Wa
wow, how did i miss this thread? im almost hesitant to get involeved since half the posts have been edited, in my opinon, take what you can get and run with it, if you can find a Balljoint alxe in excellent conditon for a good price id run with it, 900 is not what i consider a bad price for a Balljoint alxe, alxes around my house are in the 1200-1500 range at yards, i only paid 600 for mine and im happy with it. KP and BJ both have there pluses and falts, no need to say more.
as for running coils, id be more interested in finding a axle from a 78-79 due to the less offset pumpkin, if you are gonna run coils, the easiest way would be to weld Cs to the axle and run radius arms, if you get an axle 85 and newer you are gonna have alot of grinding to do to the dirvers side of the axle to get the cast perch off the pumkin so you can fit a C in there. either way, just take what you can get and run with it.
as for running coils, id be more interested in finding a axle from a 78-79 due to the less offset pumpkin, if you are gonna run coils, the easiest way would be to weld Cs to the axle and run radius arms, if you get an axle 85 and newer you are gonna have alot of grinding to do to the dirvers side of the axle to get the cast perch off the pumkin so you can fit a C in there. either way, just take what you can get and run with it.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
From: Eureka, Ca.
Here is a quote from the well respected BillAvistafron the D60 article from the link above:
The most desirable axles for heavy duty 4x4 use in stock form have open kingpin knuckles, 35 spline inner axles, 30 spline outer axles (stub shafts), and
disc brakes. *** Later model Ford high pinion (HP) Dana 60s with balljoints instead of kingpins are also desirable axles,*** though many prefer the kingpin knuckles
over the balljoints.
Exactly what i have been saying.
Oh well I am just a newb what do I know?
BTW, Here is something else he had to say:
10) Ford knuckles seem to have more issues with the upper kingpin area strength than others. Chevy/Dodge knuckle has thicker ribbing around the upper kingpin
The most desirable axles for heavy duty 4x4 use in stock form have open kingpin knuckles, 35 spline inner axles, 30 spline outer axles (stub shafts), and
disc brakes. *** Later model Ford high pinion (HP) Dana 60s with balljoints instead of kingpins are also desirable axles,*** though many prefer the kingpin knuckles
over the balljoints.
Exactly what i have been saying.
Oh well I am just a newb what do I know?
BTW, Here is something else he had to say:
10) Ford knuckles seem to have more issues with the upper kingpin area strength than others. Chevy/Dodge knuckle has thicker ribbing around the upper kingpin
Last edited by Randyb12; Dec 10, 2004 at 03:26 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 8,238
Likes: 3
From: Oregon
Wow. You take the cake. You read a little from the link that WE gave you and think it somehow backs up your point? Yea, BV says the Kingpin axle is the most desireable, but the bj 60 is good too. No kidding? Nobody has said otherwise. All we have reiterated is that the kp 60 is stronger, not that the bj 60 is weak. What do Ford vs. chevy knuckles have to do with anything? In case you haven't noticed, bj 60s use knuckles too. You are unbelievable. I'm not going to keep trying to explain stuff to a guy who admitted to knowing nothing about 4x4s a couple of months ago, but loves to argue with guys like me who have been building custom 4x4s for two decades. I'm putting you on my ignore list from here on out to save the mods the headaches of having to delete my responses to you.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,268
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From: Eureka, Ca.
I found and read all the Bellavista tech acouple of months ago. Nothing new to me. Where in the above quote does he say the king pin D60 is stronger?
He makes a point of saying the Ford Kp knuckles are weker than others.
And you still say I am wrong. Reread the thread with a open mind and you will see more than you are now.
He makes a point of saying the Ford Kp knuckles are weker than others.
And you still say I am wrong. Reread the thread with a open mind and you will see more than you are now.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 3
From: Centerville, Iowa
Randy, he states that the Kingpin variety is most desirable. This would seem to indicate that they would indeed be more rugged. Any D60 front is going to be strong. The Kingpin is stronger, you have said this. You are fighting just to save face.
Fact: D60 Kingpin is stronger than D60 Ball Joint.
Questions:
1 - How much stronger?
2 - Will this disparity result in failures in your particular rig. Both sides have their loaded guns. Some D60 BJ's fail horrible, while some D60 KP's suffer from DW.
My thought on Death Wobble: If it is related to the Kingpins..it's sure as punch cheaper to shim the spring (cost of washers here) vs. replacement of ball joints just ONCE.
D60 BJ Advantage over KP: Turning radius. Problem: Larger tires will rub regardless so "advantage" negated.
What is there left for you to argue about, Randy? That is it, the ball game. You yourself have even agreed that the D60 KP is a more stout peice.
Fact: D60 Kingpin is stronger than D60 Ball Joint.
Questions:
1 - How much stronger?
2 - Will this disparity result in failures in your particular rig. Both sides have their loaded guns. Some D60 BJ's fail horrible, while some D60 KP's suffer from DW.
My thought on Death Wobble: If it is related to the Kingpins..it's sure as punch cheaper to shim the spring (cost of washers here) vs. replacement of ball joints just ONCE.
D60 BJ Advantage over KP: Turning radius. Problem: Larger tires will rub regardless so "advantage" negated.
What is there left for you to argue about, Randy? That is it, the ball game. You yourself have even agreed that the D60 KP is a more stout peice.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,236
Likes: 12
From: Senoia, GA
everyone just chill out! let randy think he is right and let him put i tunder his truck! we have all discovered he is ill-willing to learn and just wants to argue. i suggest before the mods begin another "Ho" war we best cut it out NOW. you too Pro and Ivan, I know you are right but all you are doing is fueling the fire. there is enough info here for anyone who is reading and not posting to realize that KP D60 is a much stronger and better design than BJ.
SO CUT IT OUT AND QUIT POSTING IN THIS THREAD!!!!!
-cutts-
SO CUT IT OUT AND QUIT POSTING IN THIS THREAD!!!!!
-cutts-