Winch and battery
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 3
From: Simpsonville, KY
Winch and battery
Hey there...
I posted a related question in the electrical area, but you fellas are more likely to know. I have a 8000lbs winch on my 1999 F150, and I would like to add a second battery to handle that plus some emergency lights. However, it looks like I won't be doing it the expensive way, ie adding two Yellow Tops etc etc. Instead, I would like to add a second completely isolated battery that I can remove to the house to charge. So, the question is:
What kind of deep cycle battery can handle a 450 amp draw for several winches? That could be as long as 20 minutes in a bad situation. What is the smallest type that could safely handle that load?
Or am I completely dreaming and should just stick with the system I have and use the 3 year replacement policy on my new starting battery....
Thanks!
I posted a related question in the electrical area, but you fellas are more likely to know. I have a 8000lbs winch on my 1999 F150, and I would like to add a second battery to handle that plus some emergency lights. However, it looks like I won't be doing it the expensive way, ie adding two Yellow Tops etc etc. Instead, I would like to add a second completely isolated battery that I can remove to the house to charge. So, the question is:
What kind of deep cycle battery can handle a 450 amp draw for several winches? That could be as long as 20 minutes in a bad situation. What is the smallest type that could safely handle that load?
Or am I completely dreaming and should just stick with the system I have and use the 3 year replacement policy on my new starting battery....
Thanks!
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,945
Likes: 3
From: Spokane, WA
Spend the money and get some yellow tops. A good winch does you no good if you don't have plenty of power. You won't get 20 minutes of good use off of a seperate battery that's not on your charging system. A starter cranking an engine wouldn't go 20 minutes on a single battery let alone that winch.
At the very least buy 1 yellow top, or you could use another brand deep cycle battery but Optima's ARE worth the money, install it with a good isolator which could run as little as $30 and you'll have a decent setup.
At the very least buy 1 yellow top, or you could use another brand deep cycle battery but Optima's ARE worth the money, install it with a good isolator which could run as little as $30 and you'll have a decent setup.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 3
From: Simpsonville, KY
can I do that while keeping the standard battery? That was the ideal situation, but I didn't think you could mix batteries. I can't afford a dual yellow top, but I would stretch it if I could make due with one smaller (How big?) Yellow Top plus the 875 cca starting battery I just installed last month.
Any tips as to where to install the second unit? Is there a good wiring diagram out there?
Any tips as to where to install the second unit? Is there a good wiring diagram out there?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,945
Likes: 3
From: Spokane, WA
Yellow top is more of a deep cycle battery and it more suited to winches. This is not to say the reds won't work for them (I have dual reds but no winch right now) but the yellows are specifically designed for those kinds of loads.
It's not an ideal situation to mix batteries which is one of the reasons I recommend an isolator. It'll allow both batteries to charge but will disconnect them from each other when the ignition is off. For that matter you could hook the isolator to a seperate switch and only flip it on when the winch is in use.
I've got both my batteries under my hood, one on each fender. I don't know what kind of setup or room you have.
It's not an ideal situation to mix batteries which is one of the reasons I recommend an isolator. It'll allow both batteries to charge but will disconnect them from each other when the ignition is off. For that matter you could hook the isolator to a seperate switch and only flip it on when the winch is in use.
I've got both my batteries under my hood, one on each fender. I don't know what kind of setup or room you have.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 3
From: Simpsonville, KY
If I only switched it on when its in use (which is a great idea) will it charge enough to maintain the power output? And when it is charging like that, will it overcharge my regular battery?
And what size do you recommend for a 8k winch? It has a max draw or 400 +/- amps at max load, and as far as physical size goes smaller is better, as I don't have the room you do. My 150 is slightly tight. The Yellow Tops are waterproof, right? I am thinking about mounting it next to the winch (its a hidden winch, behind the bumper below the radiator)... and mounting ideas?
And what size do you recommend for a 8k winch? It has a max draw or 400 +/- amps at max load, and as far as physical size goes smaller is better, as I don't have the room you do. My 150 is slightly tight. The Yellow Tops are waterproof, right? I am thinking about mounting it next to the winch (its a hidden winch, behind the bumper below the radiator)... and mounting ideas?
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 3
From: Simpsonville, KY
and where did you get the terminal mounts? Those would be really handy in my situation... and thanks a bunch for all your comments, they really are helping me work things out. 
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,945
Likes: 3
From: Spokane, WA
Terminal mounts are courtesy of ebay. The Optimas are sealed so you can mount them anywhere at any angle, upside down if you care to . . . makes no difference.
Buy the biggest battery you can afford (amp wise). I don't believe in trying to match a battery for "just enough" power for a winch. The longer you use it the more power you'll need. I know that's not a braniac statement I just made but it's really that simple. You'll never have too much battery for a winch.
If you switched the isolator on just when you used the battery your alternator will help keep it up. Don't expect it to be able to keep it at 100% while you're winching but it'll help it along. You'll actually be feeding off of both batteries at this point so over charging isn't going to be an issue. Someone in another forum mentioned that their battery shop sold blemished Optimas for about half price. This might be something to check into also.
The Optimas are sealed so you can mount them anywhere at any angle, upside down if you care to . . . makes no difference.Buy the biggest battery you can afford (amp wise). I don't believe in trying to match a battery for "just enough" power for a winch. The longer you use it the more power you'll need. I know that's not a braniac statement I just made but it's really that simple. You'll never have too much battery for a winch.
If you switched the isolator on just when you used the battery your alternator will help keep it up. Don't expect it to be able to keep it at 100% while you're winching but it'll help it along. You'll actually be feeding off of both batteries at this point so over charging isn't going to be an issue. Someone in another forum mentioned that their battery shop sold blemished Optimas for about half price. This might be something to check into also.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,945
Likes: 3
From: Spokane, WA
Do a search for "optima" in the 73-79 forum. I believe the post was in that forum, only a month or so back.
500cca is a bit small. I wouldn't go less than 750 personally. What's the CCA of the regular battery you just put in your truck?
500cca is a bit small. I wouldn't go less than 750 personally. What's the CCA of the regular battery you just put in your truck?
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 3
From: Simpsonville, KY
875cca. The small stock (there is a bigger version, my truck didn't come with it) that I replaced was 540cca. I'd like bigger, but I don't have a good place to mount it. If I did, then size wouldn't matter. Any ideas?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,945
Likes: 3
From: Spokane, WA
I don't know how often you use your winch but if it's not every weekend I'd almost suggest that you just buy another battery identical to the one you just got and use that as your secondary to simplify things. We just have to see if you can find room for it. What year is the truck?
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 3
From: Simpsonville, KY
1999 w/5.4L. There ain't much room there... the battery I bought is a Autozone Gold series (CR rated them best) size 65 I think? (the biggest size) 875cca, 1000ca. I don't think I could fit a second one in there... I do only rarely use the winch, and putting a second regular was my first choice, but I was told it wasn't the "correct" thing to do...
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
From: Eureka, Ca.
Get a 100 amp isolator, The biggest battery you can afford and some 0ga. cable. Mount the second battery in the bed of your truck just behint the cab.run the 0ga. cable to your winch.Don't connect the winch or battery to anything else. Mount the isolator under the hood close to the stock battery. find the wire that comes from the alt and disconnect it from the stock battery. Now hook it up to the terminal labled alt. on the isolator. Then get some 8ga. wire and run it from the No. 1 bat. terminal on the isolator to the positive terminal on the stock battery. run another wire from the isolator terminal labled no. 2 bat. to the positive terninal on the battery in the bed. Now you have a seperate battery for your winch that is isolated from the trucks stock electrical system. The isolator will keep both batteries charged automaticly. When the battery for the winch starts to discharge the isolator will send the current from the alt to it.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,236
Likes: 12
From: Senoia, GA
so far everything stated is all good and true but i suggest you pour a cup of coffee, sit down, and READ and RESEARCH this web site http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...tery_setup.htm
check all the links and see if you can come up with something. you won't have to do exactly the same thing but you will know what you are doing better
also look into Odyssey batteries.
one other thing...be careful with the deep cycle theory. basically a deep cycle battery is built with trolling motor needs behind it when you run the battery until it is completely dead and therefore recharges back to nominal charge next time you put it on the charger. now a winch will drain a battery but not all of the way all the time. and when the battery is half chraged and the alt begins charging it again the battery may not charge fully or properly.
you get the idea
-cutts-
check all the links and see if you can come up with something. you won't have to do exactly the same thing but you will know what you are doing better
also look into Odyssey batteries.
one other thing...be careful with the deep cycle theory. basically a deep cycle battery is built with trolling motor needs behind it when you run the battery until it is completely dead and therefore recharges back to nominal charge next time you put it on the charger. now a winch will drain a battery but not all of the way all the time. and when the battery is half chraged and the alt begins charging it again the battery may not charge fully or properly.
you get the idea
-cutts-