I'm relatively new to this list and hope to pick a few brains on hauling/towing capacity.

I've got a 2004 SD Crew Cab, DRW, 4x4, Diesel/5-spd auto, camper special (+ 5000 lb airbags and Rancho 9000 shocks). It's GVWR is 11000 lbs, front axle max is 5200 lbs, rear axle max is 8250 lbs, and GCWR is 20,000 lbs.

I need to haul a large Lance camper (@4600 lbs) plus a 9000 lb horse trailer. Upon weighing the truck alone with full fuel tank and driver, I'm at 8200 lbs. With the camper in the bed, I'm now at 12,800 lbs (4900fr/7900rr). While I'm sure this truck can pull the weight, I'm a little uncomfortable being over the GVWR before I've even attached the trailer. Obviously, a 9000 lb trailer will be adding up to an additional 1350 lbs on the rear axle. I'll be using a weight distribution hitch on a SuperHitch extension/receiver.

From what I've been able to find out, it appears that the Dana 80 rear axle under my truck is rated at 11000 lbs, while the factory springs are only rated at 8250 lbs. Based on the fact that I've increased the weight carrying capacity of the springs by adding the 5k airbags, can I safely carry the necessary 9250 lbs over my rear axle without causing damage to the axle or causing other unsafe conditions? It seems the 8250 lb rear axle rating on the truck reflects the spring rating rather than the axle rating. I'm just guessing here, but it seems reasonable to me that since I've increased the spring capacity over the rear axle, I should be able to carry more weight here and make use of the high capacity of this D80 DRW axle.

What do you think? I don't intend to exceed the GCWR, but it appears I'll be over the trucks GVWR for this combination of truck/trailer. Am I worrying about nothing? I drive carefully when I'm hauling, so I'm not too concerned about being able to control the rig. I'm mostly worried about overloading the rear axle to the point of premature failure.

I appreciate all opinions!

 

1)Based of previous posts I've read here no-one is going to tell you its ok to go over the carring weight of the truck. That said I have a freind with a 2001 F350 that hauls 5 tons (10,000lbs) in his 10' dump bed at least once a month. All winter he drives around with a 10' plow on the front and a 3 yard sander full of sand. The truck has ~70K miles on it and no problems with the rear axle. P.S. He also drives it hard!

2) some other things to consider. You've increased the spring capacity, but what about the breaks, They were probably not designed to stop the additional weight

3) what about the tires, 4x the max weight rating would be the max for the axle, with those tires.

4) insurance, you can not change the GVWR of the truck. You can make it haul the GVWR better, safer. but technically the weight rating for the truck is written in stone as far as the insurance company is conserned.

5) how well does a weight distributing hitch work at the end of an extension. This is a quesiton, I don't know the answer. BUT it would put A LOT more stress on the hitch.

Just my thoughts, its your rig

 

Deleted response

 

Thanks for your thoughts, grtF250.

I'm not too concerned about the brakes because the trailer has brakes on both axles, plus the 5-speed auto does an excellent job of helping to control vehicle speed when in the tow/haul mode. I would be using the brakes hard, no question, though.

As for tires, they're rated to provide a little over 11k load capacity at full pressure. So the tires seem to be matched well to the axle.

I have a SuperHitch installed on my F350. This is an extra heavy duty frame mounted receiver with double receiver tubes that is rated to haul 10k using the extension with weight distribution, max 1k on the tongue.

As for insurance, you are 100% correct. I do not want to change the truck's
GVWR.

I guess my questions boil down to this: As long as I keep my truck,camper and trailer at or below GCWR (insurance co. should be satisfied), can I use 5k airbags on top of the 8250 lb springs to safely support 9300-9500 lbs over that 11k rear axle without damage?

I realize that many will tell me "no" for liability reasons. I'd like to hear if this is a reasonable expectation from a mechanical point of view.

 

After watching my friend use and abuse his 1 ton dump truck day after day with no problems. and having overloaded both my 1/2 and 3/4 ton many times I'd say mechanically your not likly to have problems with the rear axle.

But, I don't know about insurance, will they cover you if you get into an accident while loaded?
2) if the trailer breaks were to fail (like electric breaks can do) can you still stop. I'm not saying you can't but it would be a good thing to check.

 

Oh give me a brake Sorry, couldn't resist

 

I know it sounds stupid But I've had my electric breaks go out before (bad &*&^ plug) Its not fun. and one hell of a shock when you keep pressing that peddle and nothing happens.

 

You've both brought up good points about potential brake controller failure. That's something we all have to be prepared for, whether or not we are within the GCWR.

We heard an unfortunate story recently involving someone who was hauling a single horse in a large horse trailer. The weight of the truck and trailer combined was well below the GCWR. After being involved in a significant accident with injuries, the insurance company determined that the combination was overweight by adding the weight ratings stamped on the data plates of the truck and the trailer; they were not remotely interested in the actual weight of the pair. Because he "could" have been fully loaded at the time, they assumed he "was" overloaded; the insurance carrier refused to honor his insurance claim, and this person was ruined financially.

 

Is that 8200 with just the rear wheels in the scale or the whole truck, if it's the whole truck you might not be has much over has you think, because most of that weight you weighed would be on the front axle and not the rear. it also sounds like you have a F250 which if so hurts you because a similar F350 is rated much higher.

 

For those GVWR he has to have a 350 DWR right? or are the new 250's rated a lot higher. 250 w/DWR?

 

Sorry, guys! I forgot to mention that my SD is a F350. I'd REALLY be whining about being overloaded if I owned a 3/4 ton truck!

The 8200 pound weight I gave is for the entire truck, with no payload except a full tank of fuel, and the driver. Weight split was 4740 lbs FR / 3460 lbs RR. Dropping the 4600 lb camper in the bed added 160 lbs to the front axle, and a whopping 4440 lbs on the rear axle. With camper, the split was 4900 lbs FR / 7900 lbs RR. So truck weight with camper is 12,800 lbs total (11k GVWR).

1991fseries, you may be confusing the truck's weight ratings with the trucks actual weight (or I'm failing to misunderstand things incorrectly...).

 

I think I would search for a lighter weight camper of say 9' floor length or less and 2500 lbs or less to tow that trailer together with a slide-in camper, either that or choose a much lighter trailer and less number of horses. You stated that you didn't think you would be over the GCWR, but 12,800 + 9000 = 21,800 lbs, 1800 lbs over the GCWR, in addition to being 3100 lbs over the GVWR of the truck.

Going by your numbers for loaded weights: 4900 lb front axle weight + 7900 lb rear axle weight + 1350 lb trailer tongue weight, by your estimation, = 14,150 lbs total truck weight - 11,000 lbs GVWR = 3150 lbs over on the truck.

I don't think anyone can truthfully recommend that this is a *good* idea, even though the truck likely has the power to move the weight. You're really in bigger truck territory (F450/550). I agree with the concerns over braking performance too. You may want to consider putting another driver to use towing the trailer with another truck that doesn't have a camper on it and use the F350 just to haul the camper.

[On Edit: If your truck has the diesel engine and 3.73 or 4.10 axle, your GVWR should be 12,000 lbs and your rear gross axle weight rating should be 9,750 lbs for the truck (11,000 lbs for the axle itself), if my '04 Ford Commercial Truck and Towing Guide is correct in it's rating listings. The 11000 GVWR number you posted should be for an F350 with the V10 or 5.4L V8. The 8250 lb RGAWR number you posted appears to be for an '97-down F350 DRW with 10.25" axle, if my memory serves me right.

Not that any of this changes anything, you're still over both the GVWR and GCWR even using these higher ratings.]

 

Well, you're right- I fouled up the math. I would definitely be over on the GVWR and the GCWR. I think we're going to have to go to a lighter 2 horse trailer until I can move up to the 450/550.

As for my weight ratings, they're directly off the ratings sticker on the truck; and they match pretty closely to the Ford specs I've downloaded from their site and my 04 sales brochure. I seem to recall that California trucks have slightly lower ratings that the 49 state trucks (within a couple hundred pounds). But I haven't seen any GVWR specs for a F350 DRW crew cab 4x4 6.0 that's above 11,500. The 04 sales brochure lists three different ratings available for this truck: 11,000 - 11,200 - and 11,500. Were you looking at chassis-cab numbers???

Thanks for your input!

 

Yes, those are from the commercial truck guide, so the trucks are chassis-cabs. One would think they would be the same, but I guess not...

Sounds like a good plan. Hope it goes well for you!