Don't know which would be more cost effective: use less mud, or use more expensive tape? I really don't know anything about this, so its just my opinion. But I guess the "old timers" like to stick with what works.

 

I've been taping for over 20 yrs and never liked the mesh tape. On flat seams it's alright but in the corners its not clean. Adding about 8oz of clean water and mixing are vital steps as well as keeping the inside of the bucket clean as you work your way to the bottom. Yeah and I'm old school as I still use a hawk and a trowel to finish

 

I have been working contruction /building maintenance for too long now, so I have some "cents" about muddin'


Be sure when you install the drywall board , to match up factory ends as much as possible, let your cuts go in the corners . This will keep nice straight factory edges of the boards matching up, easier to tape and mud. Try to lay out the boards to where the "tapers" on the long (8ft) length edges of the board butt against /on top of/ each other. These factory tapers are recessed to allow for mud /tape to be leveled out and the joint will be flatter after mudding....

The fiberglas tape is meant more for repairs and quickie hole fixes that are almost to big to just mud in, and the tape will stick to the board via the adhesive. The fiberglas tape can be frustating to worth with, because it will slip when pulling the joint knife across it, plus it takes more joint compound (mud) to fill in the little webbing holes. ...


As said already very well, the paper tape is the breakfast of the champions. The pros use a "banjo" which is a metal tape machine that is just a big hand held tape dispenser with a mud pot in it. They press it against the board joint, walk along, and the mud comes out first, tape on top of it , machine has a tape cut off device in it. That is not for us handy guys tho,....


Fisrt of all hang your board neatly without tearing the edges and making unnecessary holes, which means more finish work. Fasten with screws or nails, the nails will need "dimpled" with the hammerhead a bit, to allow for spot of mud coat over them. The screws just need to be a tad below the surface of the board, to hold a spot of mud. ..

You only need three knives to do finish work, and a metal hand held mud pan or plastic mud pan with metal edges to scrape your knives clean with. Some say use a HAWK, I say no way, they get heavy, and there for old timers, that have gotten REAL good at muddin' already. A 3 inch joint knife is used for taping, a 6 inch for the second coat to feather out with, and a 10 or 12 inch for the final coat. The pros can finish it in two coats only, I never have gotten that good....



Use the 3 inch knife and put a good even full coat of USG green bucket "joint compound on it. Spread it in pulling along the knife in to the joint with firm pressure to where the mud sticks "above" the finish level of the board some, dont worry about being too high yet, the excess will be pulled down when you knife the tape down, just be sure the lows are filled with mud, and the mud is spread sort of flat with the surface of the board. If you leave low spots, the tape will not go down in to them and cause unattached "air pockets" in the tape joint, and after the tape dries, the bubbles will show up as loose tape pockets, yuck ....



Take a little bucket of water and put a old dish towel in it. Stretch out a piece of tape along the joint , not touching the mud with it, and LONG measure it to where you will not cut your tape too short . Use your wife's best sewing scissors to cut the tape, because she is not going to speak to you for a month anyway, after making this big mess. Take the wet towel out of the bucket, wring it some, slide the tape thru the towel to moisten it some. This moistening of the tape, prevents the dry tape from "sucking" the moisture fronm the mud, causing adhesion problems, and loose tape.. If your taping a inside corner, bend the tape to form a 90 degree angle, press it into the mudded corner lightly with the knife ...

Lay the moistened paper tape centered on the mudded joint. Take the 3 in knife and drag the knife at a say, 30 degree angle along the tape and pressing it down in to the mud that you have laid down for it. As you draw the knife along the length of the tape, it will press the tape flat, and your knife will pull off the excess mud. After pressing down the moist tape flat, be sure and go back along and clean up any globs of mud left behind along side the taped joint. Put on just enough mud to lightly hide the tape, too much will make the mud too heavy, possibly pulling it off the board. REMEMBER one thing most of all. ANY mud drops, globs, left on the previous coats , will cause your knife to "jump" when it hits the blobs of hard mud, CAUSING more work in having to scrape them all off, and having to go back and skim in all the ripples caused by the knife jumping up and down. KEEP the board as clean and flat coated as possible on every coat, its eases the inevitable pain of finish work thats coming anyway ....


The second coat will go on with the 6 inch knife. The reason for the six is , to "extend" the mud edges out farther than the first coat, giving it a flatter look, by "feathering" it out further. Same rules apply, clean up your globs, keep the coat of mud flat, leave a little more mud on this time. This coat is the coat that feathers out, and you need to look for air holes or dimples, to fill in. Keep the coat of mud flat, no bumps....

Last coat is a repeat of the second, just feather it wider , just enough to rid it of "edges" showing. Some people use "lightweight" compound on their last coat, wet it a little more, and it goes on like butter , nice and smooth, and pulls easy, easier to sand too. You want the dried coat of mud to have the least edges as possible, let the mud coat feather out away from the joint till it "blends " in flat, without a edge to drop off of. Inside corners usually just get the 6 in knife. The horizonal /vertical joints work well using the 10 or 12 inch knife to get it feathered out and flat...


Do NOT sand beteen coats, this only leaves "dust" on the board/mudbase, that may not let the next coat of mud adhere properly. ALWAYS use you eye to hand cordination and patience, to get each coat as flat as possible. This will provide you with a surface that doenst need sanding until AFTER the last coat is dried. It takes practice, and patience. One just has to get a good light, and look GOOD at the coat they are going to let harden, and at that time, make the decison whether to leave it that way or not , for the next coat or just go ahead and skim in some more mud if needed. ....


Drywall sanding is a MAJOR mess, that dust will go places you can not imagine in the house. If you get that final coat looking and feeling flat, most people use a "wet" sander to just finish sand with. It is a hand trowel with a red sponge on it. Just dip it in water, and rub the places down flat where they look like they need sanding. The water is simply re-liquifiying the mud, and allowing it to be re- spread flat. Yes, there is a water mess to clean up, but no dust in your tv set , two stories up . Sorry for the long book, but mudding is serious stuff ya know, all jmo

 

I was a mudder way back when, and in 12 -15 yrs of it, prob strung enough paper tape to go to the moon and back. Get yourself a paper roll belt hanger (or make one) out of a metal coat hanger. Throw enough taping mud into the joint, (do the whole length of the joint), smooth it down and and use the leftover mud on the knife to smear over the top of the paper. Note: when taping corners, pull off the right length of paper, rip it off, and crease it into a 90 degree corner before sticking it to the mud. Also the better the taping job, the less sanding you have to do. We started using a wet sponge to do the edges, no dust. Once you are good enough, there is very little sanding to the middle of the joint.

 

Forgot to mention, most of us back in the Midwest that were tapers used a 6" for everything, (tape, picking corners, 1st coat on corner bead, etc) Then came the flat trowel, with a metal pan. (wear a cotton glove on your pan hand if its cold). A few yrs ago one of the drywaller/painter friends of mine was retiring, so I built him a mud pan with an ashtray on one end, and a beverage holder on the other end. ( He never worked very hard, as he always had a cig in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other). He was so proud of it he carried it around the whole week before he left.

 

In 40 years of doing drywall I never cut a piece of tape with scissors. Always used my knife or tore it.

 

It's probably just what you get used to or what you think feels best, but I have taped miles of joints with a 12" trowel in place of a hawk. I like the light weight and the fact that I can use the trowel for finishing the wider third coats. I use a 6" knife for most everything else.

IMHO, the secret of taping is keeping your mud clean and putting on thin coats to cut down on sanding.

BTW, I don't know of any pros who use ready mix out of the buckets; we use the boxes of the same material. It's much cheaper without those $3 buckets. I pick up buckets off the side of the road, instead. (Honestly can't pass one up!)

 

A few years ago, I bought a book (at H.D. I think) on drywall finishing. The author was Myron something I think. Anyway, It is an excellent book for the inexperienced person because he not only tells how to do it. He tells you why you should do things a particular way. For example, the first 2 coats are best done with setting type compound (for strength) and the last coat with gen purpose compound (for ease of sanding). I used his techniques on a job and the results were fantastic.
That being said, in my shop the purpose of the drywall was simply to cover insulation and provide a surface for paint. It ain't a showroom. So, I simply covered the cut edges with plastic j-bead and screwed the drywall in place. No tape, no mud.
If anyone wants more info on the book, e-mail me.

 

I'll bet Myron is Myron Ferguson, who is a well-known author in the trade. You can get more advice from him and other craftsmen in the forums section of The Journal of Light Construction. This is a good place to find information and ask questions about all aspects of building construction. Check out this link:

Journal of Light Construction forums

 

Big Orn,

The mesh is good for seams. Get the paper self adhesive tape for the inside corners. Also use the plastic corner beed for the outside corners and put it on with the contact cement. takes about 30 mins to dry but you will not have to paint the corners 20 times to cover the metal beed.

Eddie

 

Thanks, guys. I used about 500 LF of the paper and about 200 LF of the mesh. The mesh is alot faster, but the paper makes for a better-looking job. I used the 6" knife and it catches both edges of the factory bevel - and if I hold my mouth right I can fill the void to just above flush and let it shrink to size.

Thanks for all the replies. One guy suggested I logon to DYI network, but what he don't realize is that this bunch at FTE is alot more knowledgeable - about most everything - and that's the truth.

BTW - I'm about 1/3 complete and feeling better (and getting better) each time.

Again, thanks for all your help.

 

It's my understanding that the mesh tape was developed years ago for the Manufactured Housing industry. They were looking for a way to apply rock to the walls, tape and mud them in the factories, then transport the homes without the joints cracking. The mesh was supposed to holdup better. That's what I heard.

MR

 

I just finished sanding my recording studio, after mudding.

I used paper tape, mesh tape, fiberglass reinforced tape, essentially just about everything in different parts of the room. I liked the self-sticky mesh tape the best, its by far easiest to work with.

ANd to whoever said "use more mud" is correct. Use LOTS of the stuff. That was my first mistake, not enough mud per joint then having it peel apart while I sanded it.

Took me a little while to get it, since I never mudded before.

But it looks purty now!

 

Just noticed this:
The joints filled with the fiberglass mesh tape are alligator cracking; the joints with paper tape are not.

What, if anything, is wrong with that? The next pass of mud should take care of the cracking, right?

Hidden problems, maybe?

 

I have never had that happen. Is it a new wall? Maybe it is setteling. Certianly another coat would take care of it.

Ed