13.5 qts or 15qts of oil
#61
11-24-2004, 01:23 PM
Did the service bulliten go out to ford service or all owners. I have not seen such information for my 04 that I ordered and received in June.
#62
11-24-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by luckeydr
SBV45
Yes I do in fact have a lot of brains, got numerous sheep skins to prove it (you could almost call me Doctor, but not quite, but you can call me Professor as I use to teach college courses in computers). Now let’s talk common sense, something I also have, given I have lived quite a while and gained much knowledge from my mistakes/experiences. The bulletin you refer to does not state after an oil change. It is written in such a way as to apply to all instances of when one checks the oil.
The question presented here is how much to oil to refill after draining it. Some have better luck at the lower end of the dipstick markings, some in the middle, some at the upper end of the markings. I am one of those at the upper end of the markings. Being a retired jet engine mechanic, I just don’t like to go around with over 13% of my oil missing, yes 2 quarts out of 15 quarts is a little over 13%.
The purpose of this discussion group is to pass along information, ask questions, and gain knowledge. If only one answer worked for all of us, what a wonderful place this earth would be, but as the oil level question shows, that is not going to happen.
Tim, my oil level is almost to the top of the hash marks on the dipstick, just below where the dipstick goes from flat back to round. This is for all purposes the top of the hash mark area. The most I have ever put back in has been 14.5 quarts and I have done that amount 3 of the 5 times I changed it. On two occasions, I put in 14 and when checked, it was where it has always been so I did not add the ½ quart. When I change my oil, I always put in 14 and check it, add what is necessary to put it at the top of the hash marks, and never had a problem. Guess this goes against the bulletin referred to here since the level is initially in the middle of the hash marks, but I do what works for me. I don’t think Ford will complain since I am one happy camper. This is an awsome engine, and my Excursion is one great vehicle.
Also use Chevron Delo 15W-40 year round. No romps, no smoke, no leaks, no problem. We could get started again on which oil is best and worst for the 6.0 but that is old news. I live in Virginia Beach, VA where the winters are mild so with that in mind, remember what works for some doesn’t work for all as this engine has proven.
My advise to anyone who has questions about how much, what to use, etc is to read all you can, make an informed decision and try it. Educate yourself, evaluate what you learned, apply it and learn from your mistakes. Pass along your new knowledge (when applicable) so others can learn, this is called life.
Yes I do in fact have a lot of brains, got numerous sheep skins to prove it (you could almost call me Doctor, but not quite, but you can call me Professor as I use to teach college courses in computers). Now let’s talk common sense, something I also have, given I have lived quite a while and gained much knowledge from my mistakes/experiences. The bulletin you refer to does not state after an oil change. It is written in such a way as to apply to all instances of when one checks the oil.
The question presented here is how much to oil to refill after draining it. Some have better luck at the lower end of the dipstick markings, some in the middle, some at the upper end of the markings. I am one of those at the upper end of the markings. Being a retired jet engine mechanic, I just don’t like to go around with over 13% of my oil missing, yes 2 quarts out of 15 quarts is a little over 13%.
The purpose of this discussion group is to pass along information, ask questions, and gain knowledge. If only one answer worked for all of us, what a wonderful place this earth would be, but as the oil level question shows, that is not going to happen.
Tim, my oil level is almost to the top of the hash marks on the dipstick, just below where the dipstick goes from flat back to round. This is for all purposes the top of the hash mark area. The most I have ever put back in has been 14.5 quarts and I have done that amount 3 of the 5 times I changed it. On two occasions, I put in 14 and when checked, it was where it has always been so I did not add the ½ quart. When I change my oil, I always put in 14 and check it, add what is necessary to put it at the top of the hash marks, and never had a problem. Guess this goes against the bulletin referred to here since the level is initially in the middle of the hash marks, but I do what works for me. I don’t think Ford will complain since I am one happy camper. This is an awsome engine, and my Excursion is one great vehicle.
Also use Chevron Delo 15W-40 year round. No romps, no smoke, no leaks, no problem. We could get started again on which oil is best and worst for the 6.0 but that is old news. I live in Virginia Beach, VA where the winters are mild so with that in mind, remember what works for some doesn’t work for all as this engine has proven.
My advise to anyone who has questions about how much, what to use, etc is to read all you can, make an informed decision and try it. Educate yourself, evaluate what you learned, apply it and learn from your mistakes. Pass along your new knowledge (when applicable) so others can learn, this is called life.
OK, professor, according to the Ford Owner Manual Diesel Supplement, the 6.0 has a 15 quart engine oil refill capacity including the 1 quart for the oil filter, but our experience is that approximately one to one and a half quarts remain in the high pressure reservoir, high pressure pump and high pressure rails. I believe it was Bighoss550 that measured the amount drained out of his truck on the first oil change and noted it was 13.5 quarts. So yes, 13.5 + 1.5 = 15.
We have been sharing information on the FTE for quite a while now and really appreciate you coming along and pointing this out to all of us. I don't know how we managed to go on this long without your wisdom.
#64
11-27-2004, 08:42 PM
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I just did my first oil change today, and 14 quarts put the level at halfway between min. and max. on the dipstick. Mine is a pain to read too. My filter is under the engine on the frame, I wonder if the capacity is different, the lines to the filter are longer.
#65
11-27-2004, 10:47 PM
More is better?
My 04 (Dec 03 build) had the idle issues when you would first put it into gear: very very seldom on factory oil; very often after first oil change with 14.5 qts. Rotella 15W-40; still very often following second change with 13 qts. Rotella (bottom of hash marks).
Idle problem went away following flash in July; so did my EGR quiet idle strategy.
Why use 15 qts. or fill to the full line?
Consider that the Internation version of our engine, the VT-365 uses 19 qts. of oil and has a change interval of 10,000 miles, 350 hrs, or 1,500 gallons of fuel (whichever occurs first, I assume). http://www.navistar.com/site_layout/...t365detail.asp
BTW, why does Navistar recommend fuel filter changes at 20,000 miles vs. Ford at 15,000 miles?
As others on this site have indicated, I believe that filling it to the full line is better. More oil to collect the trash and as a friend of mine in waste water treatment use to say "the solution to pollution is dillution."
One can only speculate as to Why the Ford change interval is shorter. Is it because there is four qts. less oil? Is it because the Powerstroke version makes more power? Maybe it is for the factory fill viscosity? Then again I would think the Navistar version is always working extreme service (in a big truck) which Ford calls for 5,000 mile oil changes.
Since Ford's service bulletin, where is the level at on the dipstick of new factory filled trucks?
Bob
Idle problem went away following flash in July; so did my EGR quiet idle strategy.
Why use 15 qts. or fill to the full line?
Consider that the Internation version of our engine, the VT-365 uses 19 qts. of oil and has a change interval of 10,000 miles, 350 hrs, or 1,500 gallons of fuel (whichever occurs first, I assume). http://www.navistar.com/site_layout/...t365detail.asp
BTW, why does Navistar recommend fuel filter changes at 20,000 miles vs. Ford at 15,000 miles?
As others on this site have indicated, I believe that filling it to the full line is better. More oil to collect the trash and as a friend of mine in waste water treatment use to say "the solution to pollution is dillution."
One can only speculate as to Why the Ford change interval is shorter. Is it because there is four qts. less oil? Is it because the Powerstroke version makes more power? Maybe it is for the factory fill viscosity? Then again I would think the Navistar version is always working extreme service (in a big truck) which Ford calls for 5,000 mile oil changes.
Since Ford's service bulletin, where is the level at on the dipstick of new factory filled trucks?
Bob
#66
11-29-2004, 09:40 AM
SBV45,
Thanks for those kind words. So glad I could help out. One rule I always try to abide by is... Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig loves it.
Now, about that service bulletin, here it is hot off the press..."When checking the oil level on the 6.0, the vehicle must be on a level surface and the dipstick must be fully seated into the tube to ensure an accurate reading. Do not add oil if the level is above the "MIN" line on the dipstick. Broadcast Message 1512, 1574". Notice it does not state after changing oil, etc; But it does state when checking the oil. If you choose to check after putting in 13.5 quarts, so be it. I check after putting in 14.5 quarts. We are both abiding by the bulletin.
Now about the oil level and how much do technicians put in. Technicians at a dealer in Robert Lee Texas puts in 15 quarts for each oil change according to one of their technicians, a certified diesel tech by the way, and a member on another forum on the 6.0 motor. Other techs have also stated the same amount goes in each motor. Now is it right, don't know, but as they have stated if it wasn't and it caused problems, there would be a lot of complaints from their customers and so far, no complaints. He also states that approximately 1 1/2 quarts remain in the oil cooler and oil pressure pump reservoir. According to him, there is probably more of an issue of different lengths of dipsticks than different oil pan capacity. Furthermore, he states that during a complete disassembly and rebuild, he has to add an additional 2 quarts of oil to a completely dry engine, making a total of 17 quarts added.
Also according to a tech that has torn down these motors, there is a windage tray built into the upper oil pan assemble, so the theory about oil foaming due to lack of this is dispelled.
Thanks for those kind words. So glad I could help out. One rule I always try to abide by is... Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig loves it.
Now, about that service bulletin, here it is hot off the press..."When checking the oil level on the 6.0, the vehicle must be on a level surface and the dipstick must be fully seated into the tube to ensure an accurate reading. Do not add oil if the level is above the "MIN" line on the dipstick. Broadcast Message 1512, 1574". Notice it does not state after changing oil, etc; But it does state when checking the oil. If you choose to check after putting in 13.5 quarts, so be it. I check after putting in 14.5 quarts. We are both abiding by the bulletin.
Now about the oil level and how much do technicians put in. Technicians at a dealer in Robert Lee Texas puts in 15 quarts for each oil change according to one of their technicians, a certified diesel tech by the way, and a member on another forum on the 6.0 motor. Other techs have also stated the same amount goes in each motor. Now is it right, don't know, but as they have stated if it wasn't and it caused problems, there would be a lot of complaints from their customers and so far, no complaints. He also states that approximately 1 1/2 quarts remain in the oil cooler and oil pressure pump reservoir. According to him, there is probably more of an issue of different lengths of dipsticks than different oil pan capacity. Furthermore, he states that during a complete disassembly and rebuild, he has to add an additional 2 quarts of oil to a completely dry engine, making a total of 17 quarts added.
Also according to a tech that has torn down these motors, there is a windage tray built into the upper oil pan assemble, so the theory about oil foaming due to lack of this is dispelled.
#67
11-29-2004, 10:33 AM
Gees...Steve, I don't reck'on I'd waste my time wallering in the mud with this one anymore as it does seem that he enjoys it quite a bit.
Didn't know anybody else knew any flate rate techs from Robert Lee, TX..What a small world huh?
Well...My Grandpappy always said that "Superior intelligence is often times camouflaged by inferior reasoning". Sure seems to ring true from time to time.
I have found that the more people seem compelled to convince others how smart they are the more, it seems, they are trying to convince themselves.
But hey...that's just me.
Didn't know anybody else knew any flate rate techs from Robert Lee, TX..What a small world huh?
Well...My Grandpappy always said that "Superior intelligence is often times camouflaged by inferior reasoning". Sure seems to ring true from time to time.
I have found that the more people seem compelled to convince others how smart they are the more, it seems, they are trying to convince themselves.
But hey...that's just me.
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